ACC Men's 3000 DQ -- Cost VT the team title

Not sure why the debate is still going on. It is obvious that VT was WAY OUT OF LINE in assaulting the FSU kid during a race.

VT obviously cannot win a race without trying to tackle people who pass him in lane two.

His beard sucks anyway, he looks like a 12 year old trying to grow facial hair.

This is the most pathetic board I have ever seen. Instead of actually discussing the call, or the race, you have resulted to insulting athletes and coaches. So heres a shot back at you. All of you fat POS bench coaches that cant even see your feet past the beer belly to step onto the track let alone try to jog, need to stop throwing your worthless 2 cents around like anyone really cares. These are some of the top college athletes, and your outside skew of them (whom you dont even actually know) isn't worth the 2 bits of data it took to post it online. Simple fact is, the VT kid ran the fastest time in the ACC meet for 3000k meters. He was dqd on a questionable call, when the FSU athlete tried to cut in. Its over, finished done, whining about it is worthless and a waste of time, as was the 2 minutes i just spent reading 2 pages of this garbage thread

Except the FSU athlete didn't try to cut in. And the majority of the whining is coming from the VT side. The call is only questionable because VT is making it questionable. It certainly wasn't questionable to the official who made the call, or the track referee who upheld the call.

And it's hardly insulting the athletes or coaches when their actions were on full view for all to see. Coach Braman and Coach Thomas shouldn't have been yelling at officials; Mulherin shouldn't have been cursing at the FSU sprint coach; Coach McGranahan shouldn't have gotten up in Braman's face after the call was final; and VT shouldn't have been e-mailing the entire confrence to plead their case with photos and videos that didn't show the entire incident after the meet was done and over.

I wish someone would post the contents of the email that the VT coach reportedly emailed to the ACC and the other schools.

It's hardly a confidential document if it got emailed to everyone and their sister.

Object IV wrote:

[quote]VT was robbed wrote:

Funny how you miss the whole sequence.... explain picture 41

http://www.hokiesports.com/track/gallery/

That starts at the mile line... Leeder "struck" first... it was incidental contact from both - all though Mulherin's on the video looks like he was trying to steady himself when he touched Leeder, and I said touched and not a push.... no way this should have been a DQ.

Uh... I am not connected to this at all, and really couldn't care less about these two teams, but the VT guy is moving into lane 2 in photo 41. Is he trying to run FSU into the outside wall?

It's funny how so many people can look at the same picture but see different things.

In pic 41, what I see is the FSU runner in lane 2, though close to the line. The VT runner is in the middle of lane 1. The elbow of the FSU runner is very clearly in lane 1 making contact with the VT runner, there is no doubt to that. Some say it is his running style and maybe that is true but it should be his responsibility not to elbow people because of his form. The VT runner has his right armed tucked in tight to his body, possibly from the contact, and appears to be impeded.

But whatever. Let em race. I've seen a lot worse in professional meets with no DQs.

you all need to get a life wrote:

Simple fact is, the VT kid ran the fastest time in the ACC meet for 3000k meters.

Holy SH*T!! Why was he competing in that event? Isn't that like 15,000 laps on that track? That would take FOREVER! What was his time and were there any others who competed in that event?

And can you please get back onto topic regarding the VT kid in the 3000m?

why did LetsRun call it a "Wyner-esqe" DQ? Didn't he get DQ'd for shoving, not celebrating?

Felloe Beard man wrote:

The only question that i have is how i change my vote on the poll. Initially, from that video, I thought he had tried to cut in too early. Now i can see that i was wrong. i need to change my vote. Can i do so?

This thread reminds me of the movie "12 Angry Men"

The FSU guy is virtually running o the line; the VT guy is visually in the middle of Lane 1 but actually is well to the right of the true center of the lane as the distances are measured from 20cm in for standard lanes and 30cm in for lanes with curbs and they are getting ready to go into the curve. That said, stills can be misleading because you do not see all of the action.I will note a key item is that the person officiating raised a flag that indicates a foul might have occurred. The call on the foul is not done by this person but this person gives the information to the decision maker. In this case they seems to have been other information that they looked at as well. I am an official and have found that making calls on fouls and lane lines in real time among the most difficult to accomplish, although partly that is because it is a task that I do not often do, as I am almost always occupied elsewhere. The comportment of the coaches in this case seem to be short of what is expected and I would not be surprised to see the conference reprimand them.

I accuse everyone who is defending VT and Mulherin in this thread of being complicit in his abusive actions. His conduct amounts to blatant assault, both physical and verbal, and should be prosecuted as such.

Maybe if he issued a formal apology, which any decent, moral abiding character would do in such a situation, it wouldn't be so bad. But he was cussing all over at FSU's staff members, and if you are defending such a terrible thing then maybe you should be prosecuted too.

I'm glad VT lost the title for such unsportsmanlike behavior. No class. The entire VT staff should issue an apology

He thought the rules didn't apply to him, and he got burned. I wouldn't be surprised if he planned it all before the gun went off.

"I wouldn't be surprised if he planned it all before the gun went off."

That's the dumbest idea on this thread and there have been plenty of those.

1. You can't argue that its just his "form" in the first picture of the sequence. Does that mean if my form is to throw left jabs I am allowed to punch other runners?

2. Who the hell is claiming Leeder wasn't impeding? Back to the first picture, yes, his right leg is on the lane line (and not in lane 1) BUT WHERE THE HELL IS HE ABOUT TO STEP WITH HIS LEFT FOOT? Is he just going to hop a stride or two?

3. After all the action, in the last frame, it sure doesn't look like Leeder has lost form and been "shoved" out into lane three. In fact...his foot is about to land right where it was in frame one. How the hell have you missed that little nugget?

4. Of course you can say its only VT that is complaining. They are the ones who got screwed. What the hell would FSU come stir stuff up?

5. Are you suggesting that if an any other runner got DQ'd on a bogus call they would just smile and walk off? Hell no they would be pissed, especially if it changed the outcome of the meet.

6. Honestly, let the kids run...bumping is a part of racing. Its almost as if you believe that had none of this contact occurred that Leeder would have finished better in this race? He ran a hard mile earlier that day, and didn't have enough steam to pass him before the turn. I don't think the contact made or broke his race either way.

Finally, I love how your arguments keep changing as more and more proof comes out.

from

"uhhh he was SHOVED INTO LANE 3 FOR NO REASON!!!"

to

"eh, well he was just cutting in with PLENTY OF ROOM!"

to

"ZOMG he was DEFINATELY in lane 2 with just barely enough room to run along side but his elbow flew up due to his form and no one should EVER touch a runner in the race (even though there is a pic showing Leeder with an elbow on Mulherin)."

Fact: Leeder bumped first (see pic 41)

Fact: Mulherin was defending his position

Fact: the "shove" was not a shove, (shown from Leeder's foot plant in picture 1 and 6 of the sequence)

I can't wait for whatever BS you are about to throw my way. Such as:

"THOSE AREn'T FACTS!" Then post another sequence showing Leeder elbowing Mulherin and then not being moved at all after Mulherin put his hand up.

If you watch the video closely you will see that there is an infraction. However, it will become clear that VT have a right to be upset, as Mulherin's actions clearly do not meet the standards for a DQ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfMcqB9jwS0

VT Head Coach Dave Cianelli discusses the 3K DQ on the team's website. The problem is that the video shown focuses on the early fall by another runner and only picks up the last lap where the infamous bump occurred.

http://www.hokiesports.com/track/

(click on the video box)

I'm not sure it matters if Leeder was in Lane 1 or Lane 2. the rule is that he cannot cut in without having sufficient room. He didn't cut in; it doesn't matter if he was in lane 1 or lane 2.

Homestrech Observer wrote:

I accuse everyone who is defending VT and Mulherin in this thread of being complicit in his abusive actions. His conduct amounts to blatant assault, both physical and verbal, and should be prosecuted as such.

That's all true, only in reverse. Like the Brojos on the front page, I'd say if anyone deserves the DQ it was the other guy. And your post is so over the top, "assault," yeah right.

I've seen worse exchanges than that in high school indoor races that aren't called, including one with Frank Shorter narrating the race and approving the shove as legal because the jerk didn't have the necessary room before he cut in (with an elbow, if you look closely).

Look at 3:49 - 3:51.

Fire the official who made the call, censure the ones whoever let it stand.

Very clever using the same handle to make irrational arguements...your GED is coming in handy. When I originally posted as Homestretch Observer my arguements were rational and factual. Even though I agree with the DQ, I am rational enough to understand that the athlete would not plan this pre-race or is the two handed shove worthy of "assault." But since my handle has now been taken over, I will post with some other handle to continue the rational arguement that Mulherin blatantly fouled and deseved the dq.

Former Hoo Runner wrote:

VT Head Coach Dave Cianelli discusses the 3K DQ on the team's website. The problem is that the video shown focuses on the early fall by another runner and only picks up the last lap where the infamous bump occurred.

http://www.hokiesports.com/track/

(click on the video box)

Cianelli is great: "From my vantage point there didn't appear to be a foul." It doesn't matter what Cianelli's vantage pointed showed! All that mattered was the vantage point of the official who made the call. Then instead of actually showing the start of the bell lap where the foul occured (and they are using the ACC video which would clearly show the foul), they instead keep showing the replay of O'Lianord going down. Interestingly enough, it was a two handed shove to the back of O'Lianord courtesy of Mulherin which caused him to hit the deck. More proof of Mulherin's dirty racing tactics and probably equally deserving of a dq if the officials view had not been obstructed by the pack of runners in the way.

But Cianelli "won't continue to dwell on the call" as he stated in his press release...oh wait he actually will continue to dwell on it and put the blame on an FSU runner who had a clean pass in lane 2 and yet was still subjected to a two handed shove which caused him to break stride, lose momentum, and open up space for Mulherin to pass on the inside. If it weren't for that shove, Mulherin doesn't get free and likely doesn't run down Martinez (and may not have beaten Leeder as Leeder was in the process of passing Mulherin when the foul occured), so Cianelli's contention that it didn't affect the outcome of the race is also false.

I'm sure VT is having a great laugh at how the "roughed-up" the Seminoles, but I think it is the Seminoles who are having the last laugh.

localairplane wrote:

I'm not sure it matters if Leeder was in Lane 1 or Lane 2. the rule is that he cannot cut in without having sufficient room. He didn't cut in; it doesn't matter if he was in lane 1 or lane 2.

yeah, he didnt cut in because there was a person there. a person who put up their hands to prevent said cut in.

That video of Stahr in that old high school mile was very similar.

Still questionable even though Shorter said it was OK.

But Stahr used his elbow to fend of the pass.

Mulherin used an open hand (or two) to move the guy passing him.

Nice video clip though.

How about using football rules and give him a 10 yard penalty instead of a total DQ?