Red Glare wrote:
Learn the sport, The DOC was indeed that talented.
Here is his bio:
http://www.usatf.org/athletes/bios/oldBios/2000/davis.htmlHe was good, no doubt, but I don't see this insane talent that we are comparing to Webb and Ritz. He looks like just another one of those 90's guys who was good at the US national level but ran crappy times and didn't do anything internationally.
Isn't this all coming from the same group (AlSal and the newspaper) that told us all that Kara Goucher was in at least AR shape and would make a push at a WR before she ran the Lisbon half marathon. Also I cannot remember the last time that Ritz ran well with a lot of hype. I just cannot see this turning out well, but we shall see.
you don't make any sense.the poster said "where was this world class talent after high school?"and i said"it was there when he got 3rd at junior world xc" which was after he had graduated high school.some of my worse high school students think i'm an idiot, and i'm teaching them geometry. don't put yourself in that same categor by calling me an idiot.
haha, YO wrote:
irun wrote:he got 3rd place at world xc, 2 spots behind bekele. only 2 other juniors in the world beat him that day.
i think that suggests a lot.
Read what you responded to, idiot.
Davis had a ton of talent. He ran just as fast or faster than Ritz did at the Kinney course in San Diego. I don't think he had the drive that Ritz did nor did he do the training volumes from what I've heard. He never killed himself to win a race like Ritz does. He was better than most and had a good finish so he didn't have to.
He could have been a lot better than he was. That's what I believe.
He ran 13:32 as a second year redshirt freshman(age 19). Ritz ran I believe 13:27 his freshman year 7 months before he turned 20.
Also Davis actually won a race in Europe against quality competition. This was in 1994. I don't think an American (maybe Lagat if you count him) has done it since. He beat Khalid Skah, Olympic 10,000 meter gold medalist and World Cross country champ and ran 8:12.
You got all that just from reading what the USATF passes off as a bio? Dude had more (innate) game than Ritz but didn't do half the work that Ritz does to capitalize on it. He just wasn't convinced to put in the miles.
All you guys need to stop dreaming about Ritz and realize that the guy must be taking something.
Look, Moses Masai is the World Champs 10,000 meters Bronze medallist. He just won the Dam to Dam 10 miles road race in the Netherlands in 45:16; Moses was pushed hard all the way to the finish by Charles Kamathi. Let's also remember that Moses has a pb of 26:49 and ran 26:57 at this year's world champs.
But yet Ritz runs 45:03 in PRACTICE and you guys want to believe that Ritz ran this effort under control and without the aid of any "supplements"
The same thing with Kara Goucher. She struggled to run 15:30's before joining Salazar but in a short amount of time under Salazar she suddenly becomes a 1:06 half marathon runner and in the process destroys Paula Radcliffe. What about Amy Begley? She could barely run low 33 minutes 10K on the roads and now she's a USA Champ and runs 31:13 at the world champs.
Does Alberto Salazar really KNOW THAT MUCH MORE ABOUT TRAINING THAN THE OTHER US COACHES?
they work wrote:
Does Alberto Salazar really KNOW THAT MUCH MORE ABOUT TRAINING THAN THE OTHER US COACHES?
Well -- he probably knows more than most of us about competing at the world-class level. He had the opportunity to train under two of the great coaches in US history. And, maybe, as he lay dying a few years ago, he finally understood what Squires and Dellinger meant by "easy day".
He was in HS when he came in 3rd at junior world xc. Stick to geometry, chief.
irun wrote:
you don't make any sense.
the poster said "where was this world class talent after high school?"
and i said
"it was there when he got 3rd at junior world xc" which was after he had graduated high school.
some of my worse high school students think i'm an idiot, and i'm teaching them geometry. don't put yourself in that same categor by calling me an idiot.
haha, YO wrote:Read what you responded to, idiot.
they work wrote:
But yet Ritz runs 45:03 in PRACTICE and you guys want to believe that Ritz ran this effort under control and without the aid of any "supplements"
Whatever the truth is about Ritzenhein doping or not doping, it's far more likely that this 10-mile run didn't happen in the time it's supposed to have happened in.
Ryan Hall came through ten miles in 45:33 on his way to 59:43. No one has suggested Hall is taking PEDs, yet somehow Ritz is another matter. I find the willingness to question greatness perplexing. And as for Salazar's coaching, it's clear he puts his heart, soul, and time into it and cares deeply for his runners. Almost all the people he has trained have done well, but less so than one would think. Adam Goucher improved over where he was before coming to Salazar, but his PR in 5000 improved less than a second. Kara Goucher has done very well, but remember she was NCAA XC champion in 2000 and showed a great deal of promise. But still her best times on the track are "only" 14:55 and 30:55, hardly indicative of PEDs. Josh Rohatinksy and Dan Browne have trained with Salazar, and while they are good, there is nothing sensational there. Of course, Salazar has trained Rupp to excellent results, but again nothing earth shattering. Now, by citing these facts I don't mean to suggest that Salazar is not a good coach, in fact, I think he's one of the very best and most innovative in America. However, if he is loading up his athletes on PEDs, why hasn't Adam Goucher run faster than 13:10, Kara Goucher faster than 30:55, Rupp faster than 27:33, Browne faster than 2:11:35, Begley faster than 31:13, etc.? Rupp has been constantly improving, and I think many of us expect, given his trajectory of achievement, that he might get under 13 and 27 next year, but that would be consistent with what he has done so far. It's funny. When Ritz was with Hudson he was lambasted by many people for running poorly (despite 8:11 and a top ten Olympic Marathon finish). Now that he's running extremely well he's lambasted for running too well. Four of the five Kenyans who will run the World Half have run 59:15 or better, but if an American is even within sniffing distance, oh no, it must be drugs. It couldn't possibly be great ability and extremely hard work! Please.
they work wrote:
All you guys need to stop dreaming about Ritz and realize that the guy must be taking something.
Look, Moses Masai is the World Champs 10,000 meters Bronze medallist. He just won the Dam to Dam 10 miles road race in the Netherlands in 45:16; Moses was pushed hard all the way to the finish by Charles Kamathi. Let's also remember that Moses has a pb of 26:49 and ran 26:57 at this year's world champs.
But yet Ritz runs 45:03 in PRACTICE and you guys want to believe that Ritz ran this effort under control and without the aid of any "supplements"
The same thing with Kara Goucher. She struggled to run 15:30's before joining Salazar but in a short amount of time under Salazar she suddenly becomes a 1:06 half marathon runner and in the process destroys Paula Radcliffe. What about Amy Begley? She could barely run low 33 minutes 10K on the roads and now she's a USA Champ and runs 31:13 at the world champs.
Does Alberto Salazar really KNOW THAT MUCH MORE ABOUT TRAINING THAN THE OTHER US COACHES?
Thank you Ahrlin for sharing the workout on runnerspace, and facebook!!
something is up over there in Nike town. why is AS offering up interviews about work out sessions. u dont here KOBE made all his 3points in PRACTICE. enough already AS. Ritz is probably cringing at this article. what benefit does it serve to talk about PRACTICE.
POD!
Montesquieu wrote:
Ryan Hall came through ten miles in 45:33 on his way to 59:43. No one has suggested Hall is taking PEDs, yet somehow Ritz is another matter. I find the willingness to question greatness perplexing. And as for Salazar's coaching, it's clear he puts his heart, soul, and time into it and cares deeply for his runners. Almost all the people he has trained have done well, but less so than one would think. Adam Goucher improved over where he was before coming to Salazar, but his PR in 5000 improved less than a second. Kara Goucher has done very well, but remember she was NCAA XC champion in 2000 and showed a great deal of promise. But still her best times on the track are "only" 14:55 and 30:55, hardly indicative of PEDs. Josh Rohatinksy and Dan Browne have trained with Salazar, and while they are good, there is nothing sensational there. Of course, Salazar has trained Rupp to excellent results, but again nothing earth shattering. Now, by citing these facts I don't mean to suggest that Salazar is not a good coach, in fact, I think he's one of the very best and most innovative in America. However, if he is loading up his athletes on PEDs, why hasn't Adam Goucher run faster than 13:10, Kara Goucher faster than 30:55, Rupp faster than 27:33, Browne faster than 2:11:35, Begley faster than 31:13, etc.? Rupp has been constantly improving, and I think many of us expect, given his trajectory of achievement, that he might get under 13 and 27 next year, but that would be consistent with what he has done so far. It's funny. When Ritz was with Hudson he was lambasted by many people for running poorly (despite 8:11 and a top ten Olympic Marathon finish). Now that he's running extremely well he's lambasted for running too well. Four of the five Kenyans who will run the World Half have run 59:15 or better, but if an American is even within sniffing distance, oh no, it must be drugs. It couldn't possibly be great ability and extremely hard work! Please.
toast wrote:
something is up over there in Nike town. why is AS offering up interviews about work out sessions. u dont here KOBE made all his 3points in PRACTICE. enough already AS. Ritz is probably cringing at this article. what benefit does it serve to talk about PRACTICE.
It's good for 8 pages on a message board.
Montesquieu wrote:
Ryan Hall came through ten miles in 45:33 on his way to 59:43. No one has suggested Hall is taking PEDs, yet somehow Ritz is another matter. I find the willingness to question greatness perplexing.
That´s because most posters on LR are a bunch of frustrated nobodys, who can´t accept that some people have a lot more talent AND work ethic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYEJ.R. wrote:It's good for 8 pages on a message board.
seconded.
wayfool wrote:
POD!
Montesquieu wrote:Ryan Hall came through ten miles in 45:33 on his way to 59:43. No one has suggested Hall is taking PEDs, yet somehow Ritz is another matter. I find the willingness to question greatness perplexing. And as for Salazar's coaching, it's clear he puts his heart, soul, and time into it and cares deeply for his runners. Almost all the people he has trained have done well, but less so than one would think. Adam Goucher improved over where he was before coming to Salazar, but his PR in 5000 improved less than a second. Kara Goucher has done very well, but remember she was NCAA XC champion in 2000 and showed a great deal of promise. But still her best times on the track are "only" 14:55 and 30:55, hardly indicative of PEDs. Josh Rohatinksy and Dan Browne have trained with Salazar, and while they are good, there is nothing sensational there. Of course, Salazar has trained Rupp to excellent results, but again nothing earth shattering. Now, by citing these facts I don't mean to suggest that Salazar is not a good coach, in fact, I think he's one of the very best and most innovative in America. However, if he is loading up his athletes on PEDs, why hasn't Adam Goucher run faster than 13:10, Kara Goucher faster than 30:55, Rupp faster than 27:33, Browne faster than 2:11:35, Begley faster than 31:13, etc.? Rupp has been constantly improving, and I think many of us expect, given his trajectory of achievement, that he might get under 13 and 27 next year, but that would be consistent with what he has done so far. It's funny. When Ritz was with Hudson he was lambasted by many people for running poorly (despite 8:11 and a top ten Olympic Marathon finish). Now that he's running extremely well he's lambasted for running too well. Four of the five Kenyans who will run the World Half have run 59:15 or better, but if an American is even within sniffing distance, oh no, it must be drugs. It couldn't possibly be great ability and extremely hard work! Please.
Atlrunner wrote:
I really hope Ritz breaks Hall's HM AR record.
Even if he's in shape to run the AR or sub-60:00, the course might not allow it. Doesn't exactly look like a record type of layout:
http://www.birminghamwhm2009.com/events/route-profileThe weather in England at that (or any) time of the year can be pretty miserable as well.
Montesquieu wrote:
Ryan Hall came through ten miles in 45:33 on his way to 59:43. No one has suggested Hall is taking PEDs, yet somehow Ritz is another matter. I find the willingness to question greatness perplexing.
well. wrote:
That´s because most posters on LR are a bunch of frustrated nobodys, who can´t accept that some people have a lot more talent AND work ethic.
No, you pair of dumbed asses. People are suggesting Ritz is on PED's because his pattern of performance is fishy. Hall's is not. Hall found success in the marathon rather quickly, as most 2:06 marathoners do. Seldom do you hear of someone spending five years running 2:10's and then turning in two 2:06's and a 59 half. Hall certainly didn't. Ritz, however, did spend the last five years in midiocrity and all of a sudden is in world elite level.
So how would you explain the accusations associated with Ritz and not with Hall? Both are American, both are talented, and we are dealing with the same "frustrated nobodies", right? So why can we accept Halls success and not Ritz? Because most people here, unlike you guys, have an open mind. They are free to analyze the facts and come to the conclusion that someone is suspicious. And if the masses come to that conclusion, live with it, my friend. You are not gonna change anyone's mind by calling the people who disagrees with you "frustrated nobodies."
toast wrote:
something is up over there in Nike town. why is AS offering up interviews about work out sessions. u dont here KOBE made all his 3points in PRACTICE. enough already AS. Ritz is probably cringing at this article. what benefit does it serve to talk about PRACTICE.
you have no idea what you are talking about. kobe making his 3 pointers is not a story. ritz running ten miles is not a story. ritz doing a ridiculously hard workout IS a story. espn magazine wrote an entire article about spending a day with kobe and his crazy hard practice regimen. 60 minutes did an interview with lebron showing video where he actually made a full court shot. doing extremely difficult things in practice is part of the story and the hype-machine.