Ex Con wrote:
Congrats to USATF LDR chair Jim Estes for the royal botch job of this years USA World Cross team.
What should he have done? If people do not want to race, they can opt not to. This is not the days of the AAU where they could threaten someone with never making an international team again.
Mandingo wrote:
It's a sad state when the top runners aren't fighting to be on the World Cross Country Team instead of clamoring to avoid it. World Cross is the premier running event in the world, period. Now that it is only one race it makes even more sense. The ulitmate irony is so many of these guys have progressed through the years running World Cross as part of their year then they forget part of what brought them to where they are. The race in Kenya is probably the best Olympic preparation they could get. The 8km should be for the guys who couldn't make the team.
In my wacked out country they aren't sending any seniors and the juniors have to pay $3,500 each! I guess our great health care system doesn't cover it!
1. Bullshit on the premier running event in the World. I doubt even the folks here would buy that. There are many races that trump it, IMHO.
2. I do not see how the XC helps at Olympic prep. Enlighten.
Having been to Kenya... wrote:
I have never posted on this board before, but I feel like I have to say something here. Most of you guys seem pretty clueless about Kenya - your attitude, as far as I can tell, is that it is an African nation, and therefore it must be too dangerous/infectious/Islamic for any Americans to be safe there.
Well, I've actually been to Kenya. Several times. I have some friends from Kenya (Nairobi, but they've been to Mombasa). I used to live in a far more malarial region of Africa - the Nigerian coastal region.
And guess what? I took some pills and never got sick with malaria. The shots that I had to get didn't incapacitate me. I just had to repeat a bunch of them for travel to Latin America - no sickness.
Furthermore, claims that Kenya is a violent place filled with terrorists are absurd. Things might have changed slightly in the last few years, but when I went there safety was not a concern, as long as you didn't do anything stupid.
What I'm saying boils down to this: Kenya is not a destination so horrible as to be dangerous to our top distance runners. (Barring freak occurances - but the U.S. is not perfectly safe either.) And for another thing, we're looking at a free trip to Kenya here. It's an awesome travel destination (for the wildlife if nothing else), and I can't see why anybody would turn that down.
Crazy Cyclist wrote:
F.Y.I. - I am a cyclist so my opinion could be a little skewed in the minds of runners.
I follow both professional cycling and running. In cycling, the Tour De France IS EVERYTHING! It is more prestigous than the World Championships or Olympics. It is the running equivalent to the Olympics or a World Championship. In cycling, there are big contracts and more sponsorship dollars than in running. Only a handful of cyclist have success in the Tour De France. The rest are just happy to be a part of the race and hope to finish. So why do the rest still participate? Why not enter a smaller race and have a greater chance for success? They participate because they want to compete at the highest level of competition; even if they finish last they still take pride in the fact that they competed, and also the sponsors LOVE the exposure.
So, why is it different with U.S. running? Why wouldn't a top level American runner jump at the chance to participate on the world's biggest stage for cross country. Why wouldn't their sponsors also want that?
In my opinion, qualifying for and participating in a world championship event is more prestigous than a good result and a nice paycheck in a domestic race. But that does not seem to agree with the masses so maybe I really am a crazy cyclist.
Even though there has been great success recently within U.S. distance running, you still have to compete against the best to become the best! Why miss a great opportunity like the World XC Championships?
I follow cycling as well. In the US, the Tour is everything, but that is not the case around the world. World Championships matter, but even in cycling you have the guys who peaked for the Tour passing on world's mainly because worlds in cycling is often a sprint finish type race--not something the Americans are very good at.
There was no requirement that you had to accept a spot on the team to compete at the National Championships. There is no rule that you have to have a championships or even a single race decide who makes a world team. USATF CHOOSES to do it that way, but there is no requirement.
Athletes have often competed in the Olympic Trials, won an event and then declined a spot for that event.
While I would like to see a strong team go, I see the reasons for athletes choosing not to go.
Even if USATF did not designate a national championship in the 8KM New York would likely still hold the event and pay prize money. So even more control over the calendar might not help as USATF cannot tell a race when it can or cannot be run.
Exactly! People make it like NYRRC is bribing athletes or something. No one is telling these guys to run the 8k, or forcing them. It's their decision. It's amazing that people here will complain that there just aren't enough opportunities for US athletes to make money on the roads and then the NYRRC provides one, and then people slag it off for allegedly drawing Ritz in. Hypocrites!
The US is not alone in sending substandard teams. Most of the European countries rarely send their best guys, even if they ran at nationals. In fact, some countries don't even field teams if the meet is too far or they don't think the athletes have a chance. Even Kenya doesn't send all of their best guys. Really, outside of the east African nations, world cross is not the be-all end-all meet of the year. Track (WC's, Oly's) will always be a bigger deal. Heck, when was the last time you saw world cross on tv? and when was the last time you saw a regular European GP meet on tv? exactly.
Ol' Grumpus wrote:
ttc wrote:wejo wrote:
I've heard from at least 5 credible sources that Ritz got well into 6 figures (yes more than $100,000) to run NY.
I think this should end any Ritz-bashing. You just can't turn that down.
That was for the marathon--not the 8k.
Oh...well then never mind.
"Congrats - 'Top American'" wrote:
"Open Comment to Ritz:
Good luck racing your Torres' buddies and pi$$ing away your talent."
This is not an "open" comment. Open comments are, well, "open" -- yours is a bit of graffiti, a covert cheap shot from behind a fake "screen name." So you have no claim to any moral or ethical high ground here.
luv2run wrote:
In other sports the top stars do not show. Cycling often has its most famous riders skip worlds on the road.
People have to feed their families and the money making window is pretty small.
Excuse me, but people have their entire LIVES to make money. It's the window for being able to compete at a world class level that is pretty small.
Obviously I'm an idealist, but here's what I believe: Guys like Ritz, Goucher, Culpepper and Torres (etc.) are incredibly fortunate -- lucky, even -- to be running at their peak abilities right now (rather than 30+ years ago when there was no money in the sport). They really owe something to the sport and to the public. Sure, they're not as bad as asshole NFL and MLB players most of whom earn millions upon millions and give back very little. But those pro athletes do play the schedules they're given and everyone knows when and where they'll be playing next day or next week. Runners have much more flexibility in that regard. There's got to be a way for the U.S.A. to send its best to World XC and other world championships. USATF needs to get on this. Someone like Pat Porter much be really pissed about now. He was at World XC years after year, and yes I know the Africans weren't yet dominating back then but it was still the world's best he was up against. Today's top U.S. distance runners (male and female) should be going to Kenya.
Hey Joe,
The "cheap shot" is Ritz cashing the check that your USATF funds helped to pay for, then not going to Kenya. Ritz and his buddies are helping to trash the sport. At this point I say "fvck'em all" like most people, I'm pretty much done with watching distance events. Ritz just pi$$ed on all of the good vibes that were generated in Boulder 2 short weeks ago. Who is he to say that the team was "not as good" that little 5hitbag came in 3rd! Ritz has to cash in now because he's got nothin' left. When was the last time that he won anything outright? When was the last time that he won anything against anyone of consequence? Who the fvck is he to say 5hit? He has no speed in the last 400m for the 5k or 10k, Alan Webb - a miler - took him down in the 10K, New York kicked him to the curb, Hall, et al took him down in cross last year, Culpepper and Goucher took him out this year, Hall's 10K split was only slightly slower than Ritz's 10K Road Champs win, but Hall ran over 2x the distance, Ritz thought that he was going to medal at Worlds but he went out too fast, died then blamed his woes on his owie.
CSC
Zigmund wrote:
So it really gets down to one reason - economics. If the USTAF organization guaranteed our runners a certain amount of money for going I'm sure there would be more interest. Not sure though how much money it would take to incent them.
Actually, USATF and the Boulder 2007 group ARE giving the biggest world XC team stipend in history...and athletes still not going....
http://usatf.org/events/2007/USAXCChampionships/athleteInfo/awards.aspHere is what was going on inside Ritz's head at XC nationals...
Ritz watched Deena Kastor take the lead from the start and bury the competition in the Women's Open Race. He thought it was a good strategy for racing in the mud. He felt good and ultimately thought he could do the same in the Men's Open Race. He gave it a go, and just didn't have it over the last few kilometers. He still finished third and made the World's team. After the race, he realized he was not as fit as he thought he was. Therefore, he began to think about other racing options. He made the decision to enter a race where he could get a good result, win some money and build his confidence back up. In some ways it was a good decision. Overall, it was NOT the right decision.
Here are some words of advice to those who qualify for World Championship or Olympic competitions: You ARE throwing away a golden opportunity if you do not compete in these competitions. One day you will look back on your life and regret the decision to not compete. Whether you finish first or last, it's about competiting to the best of your ability and representing your country. $$$ or the fear of failure should NOT be a deciding factor.
Go make the x-c squad. Then tell me what you would do.
Yeah he is. "trident" is on crack.
Hillrunner32 wrote:
[quote]trident wrote:
[quote]you're on crack wrote:
Well, what a coincidence... Dathan is trying to break an American record and is also being smart, staying focused on the Oly. marathon trials this fall.
Oh snap!
[quote]
Ritz isn't running Olympic Marathon Trials...
oh...snap!?
I thought Ritz was planning on running the Olympic Marathon Trials??
throw away an opportunity? hasn't he (and the others not going) already competed at World XC?
mind reader wrote:
Here is what was going on inside Ritz's head at XC nationals...
Ritz watched Deena Kastor take the lead from the start and bury the competition in the Women's Open Race. He thought it was a good strategy for racing in the mud. He felt good and ultimately thought he could do the same in the Men's Open Race. He gave it a go, and just didn't have it over the last few kilometers. He still finished third and made the World's team. After the race, he realized he was not as fit as he thought he was. Therefore, he began to think about other racing options. He made the decision to enter a race where he could get a good result, win some money and build his confidence back up. In some ways it was a good decision. Overall, it was NOT the right decision.
Here are some words of advice to those who qualify for World Championship or Olympic competitions: You ARE throwing away a golden opportunity if you do not compete in these competitions. One day you will look back on your life and regret the decision to not compete. Whether you finish first or last, it's about competiting to the best of your ability and representing your country. $$$ or the fear of failure should NOT be a deciding factor.
Maybe he is just discouraged after not winning in Boulder, but I'm sure the money helped his decision. Before we know it, track and field will become as bad as football.
If anything, in the past Ritz has chosen to run against the best competition available whenever he could. He's raced against Bekele since he was 18 years old. He turned pro before completing his NCAA career. He went over to Europe the past couple years instead of staying at home. A lot of the past criticism against Ritz is that he tried to bite off more than he could chew. Don't rag on him from behind the safety of a message board.
MAYEROFF wrote:
Why is Culpepper not going? (correct me if I am wrong).
Culpepper is basically a homebody who hates to travel to races, and often doesn't run well when he does - note how long it took him to make his first appearances in NYC, which is cakewalk from Boulder compared to Kenya. He knows it, accepts it, and acts accordingly.
[quote]NY runner wrote:
Its alot of $ for an 8k in central park. I would bet that its more than the money for the 5k champs in Providence and 20k champs in New Haven. So yes realitively speaking.
Marathons pay out more you can't compare an 8k that wasn't contested last year w/ a world major marathon.
looks like just some more hype for OT trials, which shouldn't be in NYC in the first place.
Its also interesting that the 5k and 20k USATF championships were open to the public as part of larger race. However this 8k is not. I believe that the 10k and 15k and 25k champs are a similar setup to the 5 & 20k and not the 8k.
No respectable record will be set in central park no matter how you run the course it is too hilly.
[quote]
Hmm, ask Grete, Paula and even Leghazoui if that's true.
As for NY 8K not being part of a larger open race, there is indeed an open 8k an hr before the championship race. It's NYRR's philosophy to get people there to run, then hang around to boost the crowd for the champs. In the past, this has proven to be a successful tactic.
Finally, 8k prize $ is probably bigger than 5 & 20k, and probably most other championships. I can tell you there isn't a ton of competition for hosting these events at the annual conventions - most of them are uncontested. So to say USATF should do a better job of selecting them is ridiculous - they pretty much have to take what's put on their platter.
I'm always on the lookout for mentions of places women visit to keep my geographic list complete, and posters mentioned Cyprus, "older European women with boat boys in Luxor [in Egypt] or beach boys on the Red Sea coast," "East Africa, particularly popular resorts of Mombasa and Zanzibar" and Senegal.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1168172.ece
According to the above, older European women continue to flock to Mombasa...can't be that dangerous.
Funny..Kiplagat is afraid, but lots of older European women go there all the time...they must know something Kiplagat doesn't.