The REASON LeBron James can never be GOAT

I don't think that's an entirely fair way of looking at it because you've left out some critical info.

1) Roster: LeBron played with more superstars than Jordan did. That's because LeBron ensured he would have elite teammates by switching teams. Jordan won 3 championships in a row with Luc Longley as his team's starting center during an era when having good centers in the paint was still important. Luc Longley.

2) Injury and other luck: It's not fair to say the Lakers would have won in 2021. Giannis was unstoppable in that year's Finals.

LeBron had huge injury luck in his favor when Derrick Rose blew out his knee at the start of the 2012 playoffs. The Bulls were a young team on the rise, and they were the Eastern Conference #1 seed. They were set up to contend for a long time with Rose and a strong supporting cast. It's possible the Bulls would have won the Eastern Conference that year if Rose hadn't gotten injured, and the Bulls could have continued being tough competition for years to come with a young Jimmy Butler on that roster.

Instead, Rose missed the rest of the 2012 playoffs, the whole 2012-2013 season, and most of the next season. When he finally came back, he wasn't the same. His absence and loss of athleticism when he returned made the annual Eastern Conference path to the Finals much easier for LeBron.

In 2016, LeBron got lucky when Draymond Green got suspended for Game 5 of the Finals. That game was in Golden State and the Warriors were up 3-1. If Draymond doesn't get suspended, the Warriors probably win that series in 5.

If things turned out differently with Rose from 2012-2015 and with Draymond in 2016, LeBron could easily have only 2 rings.

3) Opposition: LeBron won his last championship against the 2020 Miami Heat. That team only had a .603 winning percentage, the equivalent of a 49-win team over a full season. Jordan never got the pleasure of playing against such a mediocre opponent in the Finals.

It's not fair to say the 1990s Bulls would have won 8 rings with LeBron instead of Jordan. You're not considering how hard it is to stay motivated after winning 3 championships in a row, especially during an era when the game was so grueling because of how physical it was played back then. Those dudes took a beating night in and night out, and "load management" hadn't been invented yet.

Part of LeBron's longevity is because he's lost so many Finals and he's been trying to catch Jordan's ring tally and GOAT title. Losing so many Finals and having Jordan as a historical target to aim for has kept LeBron hungry to keep coming back for more. If he won as much as Jordan did, the motivation to continue might not have been so high.

You're also not considering how toxic the Bulls' front office was. Before the 1997–98 season began, GM Jerry Krause told Phil Jackson he could go 82-0 and still would not be invited back as head coach. Krause was reportedly eager to prove he could build a championship team without Jackson. Jordan was loyal to Jackson. Watch The Last Dance.

I don't think this debate will ever get resolved. You can make good arguments for each. Jordan was the better scorer, more tenacious defender, won more titles and accolades, and left a permanent imprint on the game particularly in terms of global popularity and the influx of international players over the last 30 years. LeBron was the better passer and rebounder, offered more positional versatility, and has had the incredible longevity.

If the fate of the Earth depended on winning one game against invading aliens, Jordan is my #1 pick and the person I'd want with the ball in his hands with the game on the line. But I'd want both on that team.

That’s hilarious

I’m no fan of Draymond Green. I believe he’s overrated, and I hate how much attention he gets from the media. But there’s no denying he was an important part of that Warriors team.

Yeah he was important but his suspension was inevitable the way he was acting so it is amusing to me to phrase it as his opponents being lucky about the obvious happening.

That’s true. Draymond is known for his temper and his dirty play, so in that sense, maybe it wasn’t so lucky. And the Cavs won Games 6 and 7 with Draymond on the court. So it was definitely a deserved title.

LeBron’s high IQ play is what got Green suspended. LOL

So many hypotheticals from the Jordan boys.

Lebron about to get swept. Bronny needs to play more!

You could also take away rings and say he got lucky. Ray Allen hit the game 6 shot late. If he misses, the Spurs win that one too (Spurs won following year vs Heat 4-1) to prove they were better. Cavs 3-1 comeback certainly required a bit of luck (credit to LeBron there though, that was a legit great series win). Lakers title was one of the weakest title winners in recent decades, luck involved there too and some people don't count it as it was the covid lock down bubble with no home court advantage for anyone and in the summertime. Can acknowledge he did dominate the weaker Eastern conference for a decade. The East finally improved after LeBron left it. Raptors, Celtics, Bucks all developed teams that could have took down LeBron in the east, but not til after he went to the West.

All you have to do is lightly touch him and he falls down and rolls around like a soccer player.

Nonsense

How many playoff games did Jordan win without Pippen?

You have offered ZERO stats or facts supporting LeBron being better than MJ.

This thread is over. You lost. As LeBron did in the NBA Finals six (6) F’n times! LOL

Definitely not putting any stock into your NBA takes 🤣

So you’re not going to enlighten with more hand-checking nonsense? Lol Or maybe how important the post-up is in today’s offense. Keep it coming, rookie.

Keep deflecting from having to provide any stats or facts to support the dumbest take in sports (LeBron being GOAT), punk.

I’ll let NBA vets speak for me from here on out…

Imagine thinking you know basketball and can talk about the sport and then your take is 6 > 4. I already said someone has 11 rings but no one's calling him the goat right?? Kareem had 6 rings and the all time scoring record. Why were people calling Jordan the goat in the '90s and 2000s?

Imagine if running debates were just settled by who has more titles

The hand checking things is pretty ridiculous. It would affect undersized players. Who would be effective in hand checking Lebron? And on the flip side, is anyone getting by Lebron with his strength, size and speed if he's hand checking?

??? Many could get by Lebron, many. He gets by with carrying the ball in the direction that he chooses to get ahead of the defensive player, then walks with the ball. He falls to the ground and wants a foul called for nothing but him failing to make a basket and having the occasional defensive player hold their ground when he charges into them. Basically, he's a cheater of the sport.