I think Pre would have been able to get the bronze ahead of Brendan Foster in the 10,000m in Montreal in 1976, he would not have been able to beat Lopes and Viren. In the 5000m he would never have had a shot, he was a strong runner but never had the last 400m speed that is required to medal against that field (Dixon, Quax, Viren, Hildebrand).
So hypothetically, Pre could have been an Olympic bronze medalist at best (in Munich had he run smarter, and in Montreal in the right event). Then the Olympic boycott in 1980 and that would've been that for his career.
Pre never beat Foster and would not have done it in ‘76.
I said "would have been able to", not that he absolutely would have, meaning the best Pre could have hoped for in Montreal was a bronze in the 10,000m. There's no guarantee Foster beats Pre every time, their PB's are on equal terms in 1975.
As for if Pre would have handled the rounds, I believe so. He was dominant in cross country over 6 miles and led races from the front, meaning he always relied on strength rather than pure speed, which in a tactical 10,000m, would have suited him.
How many times did Shorter beat Pre? How many times did Shorter beat me?
They were both great in their own way.
We do not know what Pre might have done had he lived. Heck when he died he had no idea how to run yet. If you doubt that watch his Olympic 5000, he looked as bad as Gerry Lindren. But Pre could have learned how to start slow and build. He could have learned to recover. His lifestyle was far from perfect, he had a lot of growing up to do yet.
What race were you watching? He executed his race perfectly that day. Three guys were better. Viren was a lock on the gold. You run the race ten times you're going to get five different finishes in 2-6th.
Only on Lrc does 4th suck. 4th is incredible. Just making the final at that level is incredible.
Steve Prefontaine would be 74 today if he didn't die. Hardly legendary, however if he didn't die again in 2095 he would be a GOAT Legend at the age of 144.
We do not know what Pre might have done had he lived. Heck when he died he had no idea how to run yet. If you doubt that watch his Olympic 5000, he looked as bad as Gerry Lindren. But Pre could have learned how to start slow and build. He could have learned to recover. His lifestyle was far from perfect, he had a lot of growing up to do yet.
What race were you watching? He executed his race perfectly that day. Three guys were better. Viren was a lock on the gold. You run the race ten times you're going to get five different finishes in 2-6th.
Only on Lrc does 4th suck. 4th is incredible. Just making the final at that level is incredible.
That's quite a take. Pre made a couple of huge moves late in the race to go for the win. Maybe the best race to go for the win, not to secure a medal.
Yes dying young and prematurely naturally elevates the mystique around an athlete, and Pre would likely not have the same level mystique he does now had he lived on to a normal age.
But unsurprisingly, LetsRun posters are missing the point of why Pre has any mystique in the first place. It's not really because of his on-paper running accomplishments, it's because of his racing style / quotes / stuff like that. That's what got him on the cover of SI. That's the difference between him and Frank Shorter, and why Galen Rupp is a poor comparison
You had to be there. He was an absolute legend while alive. Far bigger than any American distance runner before or since with the possible exception of Jim Ryun.
Only thing comparable since would be Coe vs. Ovett in England in the late 70s/ early 90s
Pre never beat Foster and would not have done it in ‘76.
I said "would have been able to", not that he absolutely would have, meaning the best Pre could have hoped for in Montreal was a bronze in the 10,000m. There's no guarantee Foster beats Pre every time, their PB's are on equal terms in 1975.
As for if Pre would have handled the rounds, I believe so. He was dominant in cross country over 6 miles and led races from the front, meaning he always relied on strength rather than pure speed, which in a tactical 10,000m, would have suited him.
It’s a misunderstanding that Pre had poor raw speed compared to his competitors. He could run around 52 for 400, 1:48 for 8, and 3:54 for the mile. That is slow for today’s standards, but back then his raw speed was similar to his competitors; Viren could only run about 53 for the quarter, and he could just barely break 4 minutes for the mile (he ran about 3:41 for 1500). The difference is that both Viren and Pre didn’t have a kick compared to some of their competitors. Instead they both needed a long drive out to get away from the kickers. Viren was just a little bit stronger than Prefontaine, but Pre had really narrowed the gap by ‘75. At that point he had run a 3:54 mile and a 27:43 10k in his only attempt. I absolutely believe he could have been in the hunt for gold in the 10k and a medal threat in the 5. Shorter in fact in an interview said that he believed that Pre was actually capable of running a 3:52 mile and that he couldn’t see anybody being able to beat Pre in either the 5 or 10 in Montreal had Pre lived.
Yes. It is actually kind of funny that people are comparing him to Schul or Mills simply because those guys were kind of "flash in the pan" gold medalists. Weren't really well known before they won their golds... and then pretty much disappeared afterwards.
For those that weren't around... In a way... Pre was sort of like a pro golfer... he had kind of an army of fans who thought he was cool. And he got his SI cover as a college freshman... which made run of the mile sports fans aware of who he was at an early age.
That is another thing that people don't realize these days. How being on the cover of SI gave you instant fame in the sports world in those days.
Schul was no flash in the pan. He had the world record at two miles and was actually the pre race favorite going into Tokyo. Mills was unknown going into Tokyo but got the world record at six miles the year after Tokyo. In those days it was common to have short careers because runners needed to get jobs and often found it too difficult to fit training and racing into their work schedules though there were plenty of exceptions. And remember, even if Schul and Mills were flash in the pan gold medalists they were actual gold medalists as opposed to being fantasy gold medalists.
Schul came out of the Army... Had one great year and then basically retired because of his knee... Mills won the Gold... had one great year and was basically done. That is why I said they were flash in the pan types. They had no time to build up any kind of following.
Pre had a six year run where he was in the public eye. Slowly building up a following among track fans. General sports fans saw him race because big track meets were shown on TV and with little else to watch... Regular sports fans saw Pre run a lot and knew who he was because he won most of the time.
There has been a lot of speculation on this thread about how he would have done in the '76 games... and without a doubt... for him to have been a huge deal... he would have needed to have won a medal.
But even without that... had he had raced through 1980 he would have still been as well known as Shorter, Rodgers, Ryun or any of his contemporaries.
Maybe not the James Dean level of fame that he has... but right there with those guys.
We do not know what Pre might have done had he lived. Heck when he died he had no idea how to run yet. If you doubt that watch his Olympic 5000, he looked as bad as Gerry Lindren. But Pre could have learned how to start slow and build. He could have learned to recover. His lifestyle was far from perfect, he had a lot of growing up to do yet.
What race were you watching? He executed his race perfectly that day. Three guys were better. Viren was a lock on the gold. You run the race ten times you're going to get five different finishes in 2-6th.
Only on Lrc does 4th suck. 4th is incredible. Just making the final at that level is incredible.
He executed his plan perfectly? So, his plan was to completely fall apart the last 50 meters and lose a medal? He ran tactically bad ... rather than getting to the front and making a long hard push he was all over the place and it cost him. He came in 4th running stupid. He should have been 2nd or 3rd. Doesn't mean he wasn't an incredible runner, as he was. But, he was the second best runner on that specific day and came in 4th. What sucks the most is we didn't see him learn from his mistake as he died too soon.
He started his all out kick in the last lap way too early and was pretty much cooked with 50 meters go. It was gutsy looking, but he totally misread his body (and the competition).
Do you yanks know that most.of the world havent a clue who this guy is? He did nothing, absolutely nothing on the world stage (like most US distance runners)
Do you yanks know that most.of the world havent a clue who this guy is? He did nothing, absolutely nothing on the world stage (like most US distance runners)
Well there weren’t as many opportunities to run internationally back then either. The first World Championships wasn’t until 1983 and there was nothing like the Diamond League Circuit. Pre did win a few international races like the Bislett Games 3k and the Pan Am Games 5k and he placed top three in other international races so he was just as competitive internationally as any one else running then. He had a much higher win loss record than Lasse Viren, who mainly trained through the off Olympics years with high mileage, but really only peaked for the Olympics.
Pre never beat Foster and would not have done it in ‘76.
I said "would have been able to", not that he absolutely would have, meaning the best Pre could have hoped for in Montreal was a bronze in the 10,000m. There's no guarantee Foster beats Pre every time, their PB's are on equal terms in 1975.
As for if Pre would have handled the rounds, I believe so. He was dominant in cross country over 6 miles and led races from the front, meaning he always relied on strength rather than pure speed, which in a tactical 10,000m, would have suited him.
No he didn't. He ran his races near the front. His freshman year he finished 3rd. His Senior year he was WAY behind until the last until the last half mile. He wasn't running XC against the World's best, he was running against college kids.
I admire Pre and he definitely is a legend in my book but he was a total head case. after Munich he went on a bender and pretty much quit running. Bowerman had to beg him to come back. no guarantee he even would have made the next Olympic team. and even if he did, Lasse Viren had his number.
plus he did too many "hero workouts" - constantly trying to beat his teammates in practice just to show them up and feed his ego. that's a recipe for injury.
Schul was no flash in the pan. He had the world record at two miles and was actually the pre race favorite going into Tokyo. Mills was unknown going into Tokyo but got the world record at six miles the year after Tokyo. In those days it was common to have short careers because runners needed to get jobs and often found it too difficult to fit training and racing into their work schedules though there were plenty of exceptions. And remember, even if Schul and Mills were flash in the pan gold medalists they were actual gold medalists as opposed to being fantasy gold medalists.
Schul came out of the Army... Had one great year and then basically retired because of his knee... Mills won the Gold... had one great year and was basically done. That is why I said they were flash in the pan types. They had no time to build up any kind of following.
Pre had a six year run where he was in the public eye. Slowly building up a following among track fans. General sports fans saw him race because big track meets were shown on TV and with little else to watch... Regular sports fans saw Pre run a lot and knew who he was because he won most of the time.
There has been a lot of speculation on this thread about how he would have done in the '76 games... and without a doubt... for him to have been a huge deal... he would have needed to have won a medal.
But even without that... had he had raced through 1980 he would have still been as well known as Shorter, Rodgers, Ryun or any of his contemporaries.
Maybe not the James Dean level of fame that he has... but right there with those guys.
Everyone you mention had a better career than Prefontaine measured in terms of international wins and placings. Sure, if he'd lived he might have done more but he may already have peaked. He was beginning his seventh season of international competition. To have won a medal in Montreal would have been a major step up and yes sports fans knew who he was. The same is true for Shorter and Ryun so I would say if Prefontaine lives and gets a medal I think his legacy would be comparable to theirs.
Do you yanks know that most.of the world havent a clue who this guy is? He did nothing, absolutely nothing on the world stage (like most US distance runners)
Well there weren’t as many opportunities to run internationally back then either. The first World Championships wasn’t until 1983 and there was nothing like the Diamond League Circuit. Pre did win a few international races like the Bislett Games 3k and the Pan Am Games 5k and he placed top three in other international races so he was just as competitive internationally as any one else running then. He had a much higher win loss record than Lasse Viren, who mainly trained through the off Olympics years with high mileage, but really only peaked for the Olympics.
The European circuit certainly was like the Diamond League back then. If you were World Class the meets were available to you. I don't know where you get the idea that the Pan Ams was a big deal. It was a watered down event that was never held in high esteem. More of a "do I have to, mom?" event. You basically ran it to get a cheap USA singlet to impress your friends, or even better, trade it for singlets from other countries.
What race were you watching? He executed his race perfectly that day. Three guys were better. Viren was a lock on the gold. You run the race ten times you're going to get five different finishes in 2-6th.
Only on Lrc does 4th suck. 4th is incredible. Just making the final at that level is incredible.
He executed his plan perfectly? So, his plan was to completely fall apart the last 50 meters and lose a medal? He ran tactically bad ... rather than getting to the front and making a long hard push he was all over the place and it cost him. He came in 4th running stupid. He should have been 2nd or 3rd. Doesn't mean he wasn't an incredible runner, as he was. But, he was the second best runner on that specific day and came in 4th. What sucks the most is we didn't see him learn from his mistake as he died too soon.
Yes he ran his race perfectly. Running perfectly does not equal better than perfect results. Modern keyboard warriors completely lack any understanding what it's like to compete at that level. Everybody's good. 4th was a fantastic result. You have unreasonable expectations.
Here is a list of Pre's World Rankings. 1975 9th Prefontaine, 1974 6th Steve Prefontaine 1973 5th Steve Prefontaine 1972 4th Steve Prefontaine 1971 10th Steve Prefontaine
I admire Pre and he definitely is a legend in my book but he was a total head case. after Munich he went on a bender and pretty much quit running. Bowerman had to beg him to come back. no guarantee he even would have made the next Olympic team. and even if he did, Lasse Viren had his number.
plus he did too many "hero workouts" - constantly trying to beat his teammates in practice just to show them up and feed his ego. that's a recipe for injury.
You are going by the two Hollywood bio pics. Lol. In real life, he did not take a hiatus and raced just days after Munich in Rome. It is true he was highly disappointed with not medaling in Munich, but a lot of what was depicted in the movies as happening afterwards didn’t happen in real life. In actuality he got over the loss at the Olympics quickly, raced three days later in Rome in a very good 13:26 for second, and had three great years until he died in 1975. In reality Pre actually set all of his PRs including some ARs AFTER Munich. He was only getting better and set the AR in the 10k in his first and only try at the distance. It is somewhat true he didn’t like to lose in intervals in practice and was a bit immature in that respect, but he was incredibly organized and pragmatic and was conscious of maintaining consistent splits. The movies paint him as a different person than he was in real life.