A classical misunderstanding. I am not thinking some of the guys are better. I am just stating a fact. So are you, regarding the mile. But some are hyping him, without much evidence. My estimation, which might be wrong, is that his potential to win against Laros and Kerr and Ingebrigtsen is not the greatest this year. But you never know, you know. He is in the same position as a lot of other runners: J. Koech, P. Koech, Habz, Nordas, the two Cheruiyots, E. Strand etc. And what about the two yougsters Moe Berg and Myers. And even Jose Carlos Pinto. Some of these guys will not even reach the final. But Hockermania???
I think you are just showing some bias. Pinto I mean come on. If Gjert pulls that one it’d be something. Hocker has a 3:27.6 PB and has run 7:23 for 3K in his last mini-peak. I think you are a little too lost in seasonal bests, which are reliant on race selection and an athletes goals.
Wasn't Hocker's last mini-peak USA's, where he came 3rd?
Also, indoor times means little especially given how the stars of the Millrose and BU meets - Fisher, Hocker, Nuguse, Kessler and Teare - have gone so far this outdoor season.
just saw Norwegian Fed said he and Nordas are running both 1500/5000
To your original point, exactly, this silly winning elegantly argument seemingly applies to one event only
Why on earth would Jakob be saying something he doesn’t mean at all? -After his WC 5000m in 2022 he said it was important to him to win in a dominant way, and to do some of the work/leading. And he said it as a general statement, and has in later years confirmed that this is his ideal view many times.
So when he doesn’t follow his own ideal in the 5000m I think there must be a reason, and doubling strain, being sick or coming from injury can all be liable explanations…
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
He doesn't seem to have a problem winning with sit and kick in the 5k. Isn't that "winning at all cost" by your argument? BTW, it's completely ridiculous to suggest he has won those titles when he was sick.
Jakob has repeatedly stressed that winning in a dominant way, by doing some of the work/leading is his ideal/preferred way also in the 5000m. So is he lying? Why would he, when nobody is criticising his actual behaviour (sitting in the pack), and he also has opened himself for being called a hypocrite. -Clearly he is saying what he is saying because he is just honest and has an intention to follow his ideal when the opportunity comes…
So here is some reasons why I think Jakob hasn’t found a lot of opportunities for his ideal running style in the 5000m:
1. At 16 years of age in the National senior champs: Was a clear underdog. (+ ran 3 other events). Couldn’t afford to lead.
2. WC U20 at 17: Again a clear underdog. (And was also doubling).
3. WC 2019: Underdog + doubling.
4. DL win in 2021: Underdog.
5. WC 2023: Sick + doubling.
6. OG 2024: Doubling + 12.36 guy in the field that wasn’t doubling.
7. Nationals in 2024: Ran an all out 1500m less than 24 hours before meeting a very sharp Nordås in the 5000m.
Exceptions: Euros 2018: He did a lot of work in the 5000m despite doubling. I think he did that because he knew he was so much better than his competitors that he thus could follow his ideal. The same goes for later Euros where he has been the clear top dog.
WC 2022: One would think he just would sit and kick here, because of doubling and windy conditions in the 5000m. But my theory is that he was so pixxed after losing to Wightman in the 1500m that he just gave in to “a narcissistic burst”, gave the fck (hit the drinking station twice) and did what he wanted the last 1000m.
So what would Jakob do in a real 5000m (not a clown race champs where the competition and weather and pace are random) like Bislett DL 2024 (Gebrhiwet 12.36/ Kejelcha 12.38)? -I think he would do the same as in his 3000m WR race: Be a clear factor in keeping the pace up after the pacers drop out; not wanting to win by only drafting on Kejelcha/out kicking Gebrhiwet…
Yes, I think Jakob almost always (like everybody else) will win at all cost. But if it’s possible he clearly prefers to win in a decent way.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
just saw Norwegian Fed said he and Nordas are running both 1500/5000
To your original point, exactly, this silly winning elegantly argument seemingly applies to one event only
Why on earth would Jakob be saying something he doesn’t mean at all? -After his WC 5000m in 2022 he said it was important to him to win in a dominant way, and to do some of the work/leading. And he said it as a general statement, and has in later years confirmed that this is his ideal view many times.
So when he doesn’t follow his own ideal in the 5000m I think there must be a reason, and doubling strain, being sick or coming from injury can all be liable explanations…
He can't win global 1500 titles now, whatever his tactics. He has shown that for 4 years. If he could win the same way as he does in the 5k he would. He doesn't win those races while being sick or injured - that is beyond ridiculous.
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
He doesn't seem to have a problem winning with sit and kick in the 5k. Isn't that "winning at all cost" by your argument? BTW, it's completely ridiculous to suggest he has won those titles when he was sick.
Jakob has repeatedly stressed that winning in a dominant way, by doing some of the work/leading is his ideal/preferred way also in the 5000m. So is he lying? Why would he, when nobody is criticising his actual behaviour (sitting in the pack), and he also has opened himself for being called a hypocrite. -Clearly he is saying what he is saying because he is just honest and has an intention to follow his ideal when the opportunity comes…
So here is some reasons why I think Jakob hasn’t found a lot of opportunities for his ideal running style in the 5000m:
1. At 16 years of age in the National senior champs: Was a clear underdog. (+ ran 3 other events). Couldn’t afford to lead.
2. WC U20 at 17: Again a clear underdog. (And was also doubling).
3. WC 2019: Underdog + doubling.
4. DL win in 2021: Underdog.
5. WC 2023: Sick + doubling.
6. OG 2024: Doubling + 12.36 guy in the field that wasn’t doubling.
7. Nationals in 2024: Ran an all out 1500m less than 24 hours before meeting a very sharp Nordås in the 5000m.
Exceptions: Euros 2018: He did a lot of work in the 5000m despite doubling. I think he did that because he knew he was so much better than his competitors that he thus could follow his ideal. The same goes for later Euros where he has been the clear top dog.
WC 2022: One would think he just would sit and kick here, because of doubling and windy conditions in the 5000m. But my theory is that he was so pixxed after losing to Wightman in the 1500m that he just gave in to “a narcissistic burst”, gave the fck (hit the drinking station twice) and did what he wanted the last 1000m.
So what would Jakob do in a real 5000m (not a clown race champs where the competition and weather and pace are random) like Bislett DL 2024 (Gebrhiwet 12.36/ Kejelcha 12.38)? -I think he would do the same as in his 3000m WR race: Be a clear factor in keeping the pace up after the pacers drop out; not wanting to win by only drafting on Kejelcha/out kicking Gebrhiwet…
Yes, I think Jakob almost always (like everybody else) will win at all cost. But if it’s possible he clearly prefers to win in a decent way.
Winning in a "decent way" is beating your competitors, whatever the tactics used. Were Coe (in Moscow) and Walker's 1500 titles - achieved with sprint finishes and not fast times - not achieved in a "decent way"? So while Jakob strives to win in a "decent way" he repeatedly gets beaten in the big finals. Your infatuation with him blinds you to the obvious. He can't win now over the 1500 in global championships whichever way he tries, and hasn't done so for several years, so he has to come up with excuses. The way he wins the 5k shows how hollow those excuses are.
He doesn't seem to have a problem winning with sit and kick in the 5k. Isn't that "winning at all cost" by your argument? BTW, it's completely ridiculous to suggest he has won those titles when he was sick.
Jakob has repeatedly stressed that winning in a dominant way, by doing some of the work/leading is his ideal/preferred way also in the 5000m. So is he lying? Why would he, when nobody is criticising his actual behaviour (sitting in the pack), and he also has opened himself for being called a hypocrite. -Clearly he is saying what he is saying because he is just honest and has an intention to follow his ideal when the opportunity comes…
So here is some reasons why I think Jakob hasn’t found a lot of opportunities for his ideal running style in the 5000m:
1. At 16 years of age in the National senior champs: Was a clear underdog. (+ ran 3 other events). Couldn’t afford to lead.
2. WC U20 at 17: Again a clear underdog. (And was also doubling).
3. WC 2019: Underdog + doubling.
4. DL win in 2021: Underdog.
5. WC 2023: Sick + doubling.
6. OG 2024: Doubling + 12.36 guy in the field that wasn’t doubling.
7. Nationals in 2024: Ran an all out 1500m less than 24 hours before meeting a very sharp Nordås in the 5000m.
Exceptions: Euros 2018: He did a lot of work in the 5000m despite doubling. I think he did that because he knew he was so much better than his competitors that he thus could follow his ideal. The same goes for later Euros where he has been the clear top dog.
WC 2022: One would think he just would sit and kick here, because of doubling and windy conditions in the 5000m. But my theory is that he was so pixxed after losing to Wightman in the 1500m that he just gave in to “a narcissistic burst”, gave the fck (hit the drinking station twice) and did what he wanted the last 1000m.
So what would Jakob do in a real 5000m (not a clown race champs where the competition and weather and pace are random) like Bislett DL 2024 (Gebrhiwet 12.36/ Kejelcha 12.38)? -I think he would do the same as in his 3000m WR race: Be a clear factor in keeping the pace up after the pacers drop out; not wanting to win by only drafting on Kejelcha/out kicking Gebrhiwet…
Yes, I think Jakob almost always (like everybody else) will win at all cost. But if it’s possible he clearly prefers to win in a decent way.
He can say what he wants, but he’s not going to bevsetting the pace in the Tokyo 5000m. There’s nothing hypocritical about winning a Gold Medal. Some of you guys obsess too much about what athletes might say leading up to a race. The only thing that matters is what happens on the track and he’s already won three “real” 5000m WC and Olympic 5000m.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
Wasn't Hocker's last mini-peak USA's, where he came 3rd?
Also, indoor times means little especially given how the stars of the Millrose and BU meets - Fisher, Hocker, Nuguse, Kessler and Teare - have gone so far this outdoor season.
The MD stars of the indoor season were Jakob, Fisher, Hocker and Hoey in reality. Let’s not overrate Yared running 3 seconds off his outdoor PB. Jakob easily beat his time right after it. The other breakout guy would be Ethan Strand running 3:48/7:30 in impressive wins.
Now Hocker at USAs did win the 5,000, and his fitness was good obviously. A tactical blunder in the 1500 was his undoing.
Jakob has repeatedly stressed that winning in a dominant way, by doing some of the work/leading is his ideal/preferred way also in the 5000m. So is he lying? Why would he, when nobody is criticising his actual behaviour (sitting in the pack), and he also has opened himself for being called a hypocrite. -Clearly he is saying what he is saying because he is just honest and has an intention to follow his ideal when the opportunity comes…
So here is some reasons why I think Jakob hasn’t found a lot of opportunities for his ideal running style in the 5000m:
1. At 16 years of age in the National senior champs: Was a clear underdog. (+ ran 3 other events). Couldn’t afford to lead.
2. WC U20 at 17: Again a clear underdog. (And was also doubling).
3. WC 2019: Underdog + doubling.
4. DL win in 2021: Underdog.
5. WC 2023: Sick + doubling.
6. OG 2024: Doubling + 12.36 guy in the field that wasn’t doubling.
7. Nationals in 2024: Ran an all out 1500m less than 24 hours before meeting a very sharp Nordås in the 5000m.
Exceptions: Euros 2018: He did a lot of work in the 5000m despite doubling. I think he did that because he knew he was so much better than his competitors that he thus could follow his ideal. The same goes for later Euros where he has been the clear top dog.
WC 2022: One would think he just would sit and kick here, because of doubling and windy conditions in the 5000m. But my theory is that he was so pixxed after losing to Wightman in the 1500m that he just gave in to “a narcissistic burst”, gave the fck (hit the drinking station twice) and did what he wanted the last 1000m.
So what would Jakob do in a real 5000m (not a clown race champs where the competition and weather and pace are random) like Bislett DL 2024 (Gebrhiwet 12.36/ Kejelcha 12.38)? -I think he would do the same as in his 3000m WR race: Be a clear factor in keeping the pace up after the pacers drop out; not wanting to win by only drafting on Kejelcha/out kicking Gebrhiwet…
Yes, I think Jakob almost always (like everybody else) will win at all cost. But if it’s possible he clearly prefers to win in a decent way.
He can say what he wants, but he’s not going to bevsetting the pace in the Tokyo 5000m. There’s nothing hypocritical about winning a Gold Medal. Some of you guys obsess too much about what athletes might say leading up to a race. The only thing that matters is what happens on the track and he’s already won three “real” 5000m WC and Olympic 5000m.
But can't win the big ones now over his main distance.
He can't win global 1500 titles now, whatever his tactics. He has shown that for 4 years. If he could win the same way as he does in the 5k he would. He doesn't win those races while being sick or injured - that is beyond ridiculous.
I think Jakob being an almost unbeatable 5000m racer and a vulnerable 1500m guy (in champs) is a myth…
I am calling champs for clown races because they very often are coincidentally and random -who participate, who peaked well, who has a good day in that particular race or even is sick or injured, who were boxed in or had to run vide, who got drafted without having to fight for position, who was blocked, who was lucky with the pace, which distance runners have genes for enduring hot weather -all these things that have nothing to do with running.. So below I will say something about how I think these non running things have impacted Jakob in his two champs events:
1. I think Jakob has excelled in the 5000m champs because his competitors have chosen other events or have been more marked by doubling than he has been, or they have been sick, injured or at least not in peak shape. He has also been benefited by the slow pace (because he also is a 1500m guy) that originates partly from the hot conditions that almost always haunt the distance events. And he is also an above average good responder of the hot temperatures in it self. Saying all this, I don’t claim he wouldn’t have won anyways. But we just don’t know…
2. Jakob could “easily” have won all 1500m champs 2021 -2024 if some coincidences had been different. In 2022 he and Wightman were so close in shape that some small adjustments in the pace could have gotten the favour to Jakob. But who saw Jake coming so brilliantly almost out of nothing in such a dominant year for Jakob.
2022 indoors champs 1500m silver: No weak tactics from Jakob here. Without covid he would have beaten Tefera with the 3 sec he had on him in his indoor WR a couple of weeks prior.
2023 WC: He would have beaten Kerr (and Nordås) with 2 sec in the 1500m if not sick. He ran in reality a solo look a like 3.27.18 in Silesia (got very little help from the pacers) on a bad day (early lactate) some time prior, and WR’s in the 2000m/2 mile later. No way a consistent guy like Jakob loses 2 sec in a race in between…
2024 OG: Not hard to see who was the best 1500m runner in that final.-Jakob of course. But he blew it with his pacing. So was he forced to front run because of weak kick? Not at all -as the best runner he has of course also the best kick (the guy with the most left in the tank on the home straight; correctly paced that is). Jakob could have won in numerous ways.
Conclusion: Jakob has been lucky with how things have turned out in the 5000m champs, and unlucky/ a little clumsy in the 1500m ones. No reason he would be more vulnerable in the 1500m than the 5000m champs…
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
Wonder what his rounds will look like. Usually takes one round from the gun and the other slow from the back. Since he's gonna be (presumably) less sharp than usual, will he change that? Will he take both from the gun? Both tactical? Run 3:30 in the heats? Who knows.