At the men's middle and long distance events at Mexico '68 runners from non-altitude countries have won
2 gold medals
2 silver medals
5 bronce medals
The 800 was unaffected by altitude and may have benefited from it with the thinner air causing less resistance, as it did in the sprints. In the longer distances the winners were from Kenya, Ethiopia and Tunisia. Non-altitude runners struggled, there have been numerous accounts of this, and we also saw this with Clarke, who was by far the fastest distance runner in the world that year and had to be virtually carried off after the 10k in a stretcher. The winning times were very slow - over 14min in the 5k and 29:37 in the 10k. Mexico City were the "altitude" Games.
medals won by non-altitude runners: 800m: 2 1500m: 2 steeple: 1 5000m: 1 10000m: 1 Marathon: 2
So then by that logic... H ElG 3:24.xx....and you should know what that means....
Jimbo ~3.24WR!
Lol. Nah man. I already said Ryun was a 3:29/3:47 guy pre-super shoes on modern tracks w pacing. Put him in super shoes, that’s a 3:27/3:45. But, if you put him on Epo…..
Jim Ryun set the NCAA 800 meter record in 1966. That's 58 years ago (2025 - 1966 = 59). He was 19 years old!
Ryun was a great runner but he's not the best. He was a heavy favorite in the biggest race of his career and lost. He let Keino get away.
Contrast that with Centro and Hocker who each won biggest races of their careers albeit in markedly different ways. Neither let the race go.
He's not the best American
I agree with you though I’d hardly use Centro’s jog and kick medal as an example. Plus, don’t you think Ryun in today’s era with today’s shoes and bicarb would’ve been in it for gold in 2024? I’d at least entertain the notion.
Jim Ryun set the NCAA 800 meter record in 1966. That's 58 years ago (2025 - 1966 = 59). He was 19 years old!
The 800 is mid-distance. While a great runner at a young age, his ultimate achievements including lack of Olympic gold and tailing off of performance later in career make this a no.
Nick Willis isn't my "buddy" but he hasn't done a scientific study into the effect of the shoes. So where did he improve 2.5 seconds from the shoes? Also, who has seriously argued that El G's record is worth 3:23x in the shoes?
There are numerous scholarly articles supporting increased efficiency from the shoes and performance enhancements. A simple google search will reveal it for you The 2.5 sec is basically in the middle.
Let me reverse the hypothetical… you don’t think the three Olympic 1500 medalists from 2024 are capable of 3:25:00 with Epo? Epo was a helluva drug.
No, I don't think they are capable of that. I think the championship finalists are already likely using something that can't be detected, even if it isn't quite as potent as an unrestrained use of EPO.
A Google search isn't a reliable indicator of what science says. It throws up any kind of comment and much of it complete rubbish. The nature of performance improvements we have seen indicate to me the improvements are fractional and for some runners not at all.
Show the confirmed data (not the estimate) that says he closed in 36.5. Sorry, "around" 36.5. Like 38?
36.5-37.1 hand-timed from actual video footage. So not "like 38".
It isn't hand-timed to that degree of accuracy because it can only be estimated at what point he ran the last 300m and that the video recording itself is at actual speed. So what I have read is that 38 or just below (which is still very fast) is a better estimate and consistent with the level he was able to perform.
He ran considerably faster at altitude than he ever ran
Less thsn a second and not 2 seconds as you wanted to tell us.
It was over a second, since he never otherwise ran below 3:36. Your mile conversion is only an estimate, not an actual time. But it still misses the point of how he was able to be so much faster at altitude than at sea level and coming virtually straight out of hospital. Katir would be envious.
The 800 was unaffected by altitude and may have benefited from it with the thinner air causing less resistance, as it did in the sprints. In the longer distances the winners were from Kenya, Ethiopia and Tunisia. Non-altitude runners struggled, there have been numerous accounts of this, and we also saw this with Clarke, who was by far the fastest distance runner in the world that year and had to be virtually carried off after the 10k in a stretcher. The winning times were very slow - over 14min in the 5k and 29:37 in the 10k. Mexico City were the "altitude" Games.
medals won by non-altitude runners: 800m: 2 1500m: 2 steeple: 1 5000m: 1 10000m: 1 Marathon: 2
So you haven't read what I said. Go back to sleep.
Jim Ryun set the NCAA 800 meter record in 1966. That's 58 years ago (2025 - 1966 = 59). He was 19 years old!
Ryun was a great runner but he's not the best. He was a heavy favorite in the biggest race of his career and lost. He let Keino get away.
Contrast that with Centro and Hocker who each won biggest races of their careers albeit in markedly different ways. Neither let the race go.
He's not the best American
Ryun would have beaten Keino at sea level. He always did. Mexico City was farcical. Because of altitude there were never a Games before them like it and none since. There have been no Games at altitude since '68 - for good reason.
Ryun was a great runner but he's not the best. He was a heavy favorite in the biggest race of his career and lost. He let Keino get away.
Contrast that with Centro and Hocker who each won biggest races of their careers albeit in markedly different ways. Neither let the race go.
He's not the best American
Ryun would have beaten Keino at sea level. He always did. Mexico City was farcical. Because of altitude there were never a Games before them like it and none since. There have been no Games at altitude since '68 - for good reason.
There are numerous scholarly articles supporting increased efficiency from the shoes and performance enhancements. A simple google search will reveal it for you The 2.5 sec is basically in the middle.
Let me reverse the hypothetical… you don’t think the three Olympic 1500 medalists from 2024 are capable of 3:25:00 with Epo? Epo was a helluva drug.
No, I don't think they are capable of that. I think the championship finalists are already likely using something that can't be detected, even if it isn't quite as potent as an unrestrained use of EPO.
A Google search isn't a reliable indicator of what science says. It throws up any kind of comment and much of it complete rubbish. The nature of performance improvements we have seen indicate to me the improvements are fractional and for some runners not at all.
I disagree. Epo, and these are all 3:25 guys. If you split the middle of what Nick Willis has said very recently that the shoes are worth, they are worth 2 seconds in the 1500. So a 3:29 guy is now 3:27 (with bicarb too). But we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Jim was my hero growing up. HE had two amazing years, '66-'67. Then he ran well to get a silver; the altitude of course hampered him, but I'd argue he was not at the same level he'd been the previous two years. HE'd had mononucleosis prior to the Olympics. Could the '67 Ryun have beaten the '68 Keino at 7000+ altitude. YES.