Trump and Vance (and for that matter, Musk) are the least “alpha” leaders the US has ever had. The only thing more embarrassing than their actions are the idiots contorting themselves to defend Dear Leader.
A principled republican who voted for Trump voted for Trump’s principles, which are non-existent.
This was a total setup. It was like Soprano's fan fiction script or something.
First there was a Russian state media reporter in the "hand picked" pool of reporters that was not on the approved list but "somehow" got into the OVAL FREAKING OFFICE unnoticed. Sure. We believe you.
Next, we have some no-name guy from Real America's Voice asking Zelensky, "Why don't you wear a suit? Do you even own a suit?" And follows with something about, "A lot of American's have a problem with you not respecting the office." And suggests that Zelensky could get a suit like his. WTF is that about? That is not a serious person or a serious question.
Trump starts with "I can be tougher than an other human being ... but you're never going to get a deal that way."
Quick side note that JD Vance said, "Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk ..." That has been a hotly debated topic this week, so good to have that on the record.
Then just as Trump asks for one more question, JD Vance kicks off the main act by interjecting, and that eventually leads Trump to get all red-faced and they both start demanding that Z should be more respectful and thank them over and over.
When you ask for thanks and then demand respect, you no longer have the upper hand. When you get red-faced and angry and start pointing while the other guy remains calm and unrattled, you look weak. Trump and Vance made themselves look like fools.
In the end Trump is the big loser here because he looked like a giant baby and didn't get the mineral deal that he wanted.
This was a total setup. It was like Soprano's fan fiction script or something.
First there was a Russian state media reporter in the "hand picked" pool of reporters that was not on the approved list but "somehow" got into the OVAL FREAKING OFFICE unnoticed. Sure. We believe you.
Next, we have some no-name guy from Real America's Voice asking Zelensky, "Why don't you wear a suit? Do you even own a suit?" And follows with something about, "A lot of American's have a problem with you not respecting the office." And suggests that Zelensky could get a suit like his. WTF is that about? That is not a serious person or a serious question.
Trump starts with "I can be tougher than an other human being ... but you're never going to get a deal that way."
Quick side note that JD Vance said, "Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk ..." That has been a hotly debated topic this week, so good to have that on the record.
Then just as Trump asks for one more question, JD Vance kicks off the main act by interjecting, and that eventually leads Trump to get all red-faced and they both start demanding that Z should be more respectful and thank them over and over.
When you ask for thanks and then demand respect, you no longer have the upper hand. When you get red-faced and angry and start pointing while the other guy remains calm and unrattled, you look weak. Trump and Vance made themselves look like fools.
In the end Trump is the big loser here because he looked like a giant baby and didn't get the mineral deal that he wanted.
“Real America’s Voice” guy is Marjorie Taylor-Greene’s boyfriend. Very much in on the plan.
The plan, incidentally, was to scrap the minerals deal agreed to last week to ensure Ukraine receives no future US support.
This was a total setup. It was like Soprano's fan fiction script or something.
First there was a Russian state media reporter in the "hand picked" pool of reporters that was not on the approved list but "somehow" got into the OVAL FREAKING OFFICE unnoticed. Sure. We believe you.
Next, we have some no-name guy from Real America's Voice asking Zelensky, "Why don't you wear a suit? Do you even own a suit?" And follows with something about, "A lot of American's have a problem with you not respecting the office." And suggests that Zelensky could get a suit like his. WTF is that about? That is not a serious person or a serious question.
Trump starts with "I can be tougher than an other human being ... but you're never going to get a deal that way."
Quick side note that JD Vance said, "Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk ..." That has been a hotly debated topic this week, so good to have that on the record.
Then just as Trump asks for one more question, JD Vance kicks off the main act by interjecting, and that eventually leads Trump to get all red-faced and they both start demanding that Z should be more respectful and thank them over and over.
When you ask for thanks and then demand respect, you no longer have the upper hand. When you get red-faced and angry and start pointing while the other guy remains calm and unrattled, you look weak. Trump and Vance made themselves look like fools.
In the end Trump is the big loser here because he looked like a giant baby and didn't get the mineral deal that he wanted.
Do you think the ranting about Hunter Biden's bathroom was a theatrical thing or just some dementia slipping out?
Some people claim that Trump deliberately says ludicrous things to throw people off guard, and I take that as a serious possibility.
Trump and JD have little dog energy. Yapping away because they are so weak and insecure. Putin's puppets feeling as weak and scared as their master. No actual strong person behaves like these two.
how do you let russian state media into the oval office for any reason? basic security and counter-surveillance stuff. it continues to be amateur hour.
and, yeah, it does feel like a trump setup, or "saint anselm college" (leavitt) incompetence or lack of control of the summit space by the spokesperson when you have this huge meeting and the media in the room are like russian state media and some random dude asking obnoxious questions, and not professionals like AP or reuters -- who were not allowed in.
Trump and Vance (and for that matter, Musk) are the least “alpha” leaders the US has ever had. The only thing more embarrassing than their actions are the idiots contorting themselves to defend Dear Leader.
A principled republican who voted for Trump voted for Trump’s principles, which are non-existent.
I'm a long-time Democrat and voted for Trump because his policies are better than those we had under the 4 years of Biden / Kamala.
Trump and JD have little dog energy. Yapping away because they are so weak and insecure. Putin's puppets feeling as weak and scared as their master. No actual strong person behaves like these two.
The old saying was diplomacy is about saying nice things while you do mean things to get the upper hand.
But, Trump & Vance seem to have not learned that yet. They seem busy doing the opposite.
And some commentators claim that the way Trump gave up so much leverage with Putin right from the get-go, running to meet with him and demanding nothing at all, doesn't bode too well for his learning diplomacy.
I'm a long-time Democrat and voted for Trump because his policies are better than those we had under the 4 years of Biden / Kamala.
Wow. Playing your disingenuous “long-time Democrat” schtick again. You’re nearly as much of a Democrat as you are a woman. Although I have no preference on whether one is a woman or a man, and there are many reasons why one might blanche at calling themselves a Democrat, I’d still go with Dem over Republican these days, given who occupies the Oval and what the cult of personality entails, even though Conservative-Independent would be better than identifying with either party by leaps and bounds.
In important meetings between world leaders, VPs are to be seen and not heard.
first off, yes, exactly, and diplomatic stuff is usually scripted. and you don't meet unless it's all agreed. summits are for show. this reads like the show was to be a pro wrestling lead-in.
second, trump obviously planted the "here to sign something" stories and was not right about that. or ukraine would have signed the mines deal before it left.
third, ordering ukraine to leave is itself crappy protocol.
fourth, it's lame ivy league crap to frown on how someone from an invaded country shows up dressed, or whether they are in suit and tie. i chuckled at zelensky saying i'll put on the monkey suit when i have a peace to sign. paraphrasing. which is itself an implied critique of what he was really here to do.
related point, but even if you think it, it's undiplomatic to say it. but this administration is about symbolic flame wars rather than getting anything done. we seem very proud we got russia to the table via god knows what concessions when they are under sanctions.
fifth, i am glad he spoke up about the utter russian-propaganda gibberish trump has been throwing around about the war. i am sure ukraine is like, on what planet to do you live? they rolled tanks and troops across their borders. and it's grotesque how it becomes a quasi-soviet party line in this country.
last, people forget zelensky was on the other end of the failed Perfect Call and didn't do what trump wanted. trump may pretend he wasn't working with russia, but he didn't deny the phone call on That Other Impeachment. he tried to force zelensky to rip biden. he refused.
i don't think this is sincere foreign affairs. i think this is personal payback.
i think we're the wrong side of history on this right now and any Real Reaganite would know that. putin's probably worse than gorby, not better.
the idea that being so frightened of your big bully neighbor that you would like some friends, is somehow the victim's fault when they get punched for trying to make friends, is laughable.
This was a total setup. It was like Soprano's fan fiction script or something.
First there was a Russian state media reporter in the "hand picked" pool of reporters that was not on the approved list but "somehow" got into the OVAL FREAKING OFFICE unnoticed. Sure. We believe you.
Next, we have some no-name guy from Real America's Voice asking Zelensky, "Why don't you wear a suit? Do you even own a suit?" And follows with something about, "A lot of American's have a problem with you not respecting the office." And suggests that Zelensky could get a suit like his. WTF is that about? That is not a serious person or a serious question.
Trump starts with "I can be tougher than an other human being ... but you're never going to get a deal that way."
Quick side note that JD Vance said, "Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk ..." That has been a hotly debated topic this week, so good to have that on the record.
Then just as Trump asks for one more question, JD Vance kicks off the main act by interjecting, and that eventually leads Trump to get all red-faced and they both start demanding that Z should be more respectful and thank them over and over.
When you ask for thanks and then demand respect, you no longer have the upper hand. When you get red-faced and angry and start pointing while the other guy remains calm and unrattled, you look weak. Trump and Vance made themselves look like fools.
In the end Trump is the big loser here because he looked like a giant baby and didn't get the mineral deal that he wanted.
Do you think the ranting about Hunter Biden's bathroom was a theatrical thing or just some dementia slipping out?
Some people claim that Trump deliberately says ludicrous things to throw people off guard, and I take that as a serious possibility.
you look back and there were a sequence of black bag type things they tried in 2020.
there was the phone call to try to get ukraine to say biden was corrupt, for which he was impeached.
there was the false $5 million payment thing, for which the israeli guy pleaded guilty for perjury.
and then they tried the hunter laptop.
i think he thought he was owed the presidency for lining up his little black bag surprises. and he tried another one on january 6. i think that's why to him it was stolen and this is lore. and he's gonna talk about it forever because ukraine didn't play along and help him be in office after 2020.
Although I disagree with all of them some of the time and disagree with them most of the time, I have friends who are Democrats, Republicans, and independents. Many of them are very reasonable, they’re all at least fairly respectable, and most of them are very respectable, as far as I can tell.
You frequently pull crap like this, and it makes you seem like the kind of person that few good people would ever want to have to be around.
riffing on that thought, in the 1970s, there was a sense of propriety and shame, and a lot of the stuff we now see as "nixon" actually came later off the tapes. he didn't say these things in public, plumbers, enemies list, whatnot. there were hearings, church committee, stuff like that, plus watergate, and we eventually found out what he actually thought. and it was paranoid and black bag stuff.
i don't know if it's trump has his loyal cult, or senility like you say, or society has changed, but he feels free to push his little paranoid counter-narrative to the press, openly, on down to tiny hunter biden details, even as you say, at an event as crazy to bring it up as an international summit trying to settle a war.
side point for the GOP supporting him, but he's basically got all of you tied up in bows. what does hunter biden have to do with settling the ukraine war?
if your company was potentially doing a business deal and you're there with the media to announce it, and your undisciplined jerk CEO suddenly starts going off on how the other company didn't help them plant some story with the newspaper about an enemy, and then the meeting descends into shouting, and nothing gets signed.......
sorry but your CEO is a screwup. he's too old, he's crazy, he's out of control, he can't let his narrative get challenged -- and i guess doing ukraine any deals or favors undermines his narrative -- or something else is messed. you don't bring the other CEO over to have a sh*tshow. even if you re-make your narrative point, it reflects badly on you and how you run your shop.
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