Ivy League opting out of NCAA settlement

You can't price match any of those schools. Thst is completely false.

Sure they can. Which schools do you think they can't match aid with?

You are getting candid discussion from an actual coach. Play nice.😁

You can't price match any state school. That is a violation of NCAA rules.

Ivies can't price match non-Ivies for athletes. Athletes pay the same price as every other student.

I don't think anyone has a problem with the Whitaker sisters. They were a great story in Paris, still in the NCAA, are great kids and are wonderful reps for their schools. Stanford, Penn and now Arkansas.

The point is they aren't driving revenue, awareness or donations for their schools. They happen to run for schools that already have 100% awareness, huge donors and large endowments. None of that is due to I Whitaker, despite her achievements on the track.

Last year Penn had about 45000 applications for 2500 freshmen spots. None of those applications were due to I Whitaker. Less than 5% (closer to 0) of those applicants would even know who she is.

Similarly, Whitaker's exploits at ncaa and Paris were on TV, but unlike football and basketball, the TV money for track is tiny and 0 of that tiny amount trickles back to Harvard.

On the donation front, $billions in donations hung in the balance for Penn in 2024 on the issue of Palestine and anti semitism.

Tens of dollars in donations hung in the balance due to I Whitaker, her parents' annual donation to the parents fund.

So Whitaker does not drive awareness of Penn, any revenue stream at Penn, or many donations to Penn. All her training, nutrition, physio, health, equipment and travel costs were paid by Penn. Why should she be paid? What income to the school should she share in?

Exactly. Like nobody had ever heard of either school before. She's so entitled

Sort of...

Say Ivy costs 100,000 FAFSA Efc is 20,000 and Ivy calculator says they will meet the need of 80000 with 60000 in grant and 20000 in loan, then your net cost is $40000 at Ivy, the efc plus the loan amount.

State school cost is $40000 minus a $10000 scholarship is $30000.

So net for net it's $30000 for State v $40000 for Ivy.

but the Ivy can legally change their financial aid offer from 60 grant 20 loan to 70 grant 10 loan, thereby making the net comparisons now 30 to 30, or a match.

The Ivy can keep improving the offer up to 100% of need. What they cannot do is go beyond that.

Nothing is correct. Ivies don't use Fafsa. Ivies cover 100% of need through grants, not loans. Ivies can't change their formula to match price of non-Ivy. The NCAA would suspend them for doing that.

This is a good one.

He attended a highly ranked private prep school Philips Andover, that costs as much each year, as an Ivy League college. 100% of Philips grads not just go to college, but only to the top schools.

This is part of the Ivy league prep industrial complex for families with net worth over $10 million.

Jr will go to an Ivy just like great pop, pop pop, and pops. He will go to the right kindergarten, the right primary school, the right prep school, will learn country club sports like sailing, rowing, squash, fencing, golf, equestrian. He will work with a college consultant to get a spot on a Nobel winning research project while still in high school, start a non profit and make 1600 on SAT. If he impregnates the au pair, it will go away. He will spend a year in Provence with uncle Jacque to polisi his French and learn what foods go best with Bordeaux, Burgundy, Mersault, Chablis, Sauternes and Chateau Neuf du Papes. Jr's trust fund covers kindergarten through post doc with some leftover change for a year or two of travel. He picked Philips Andover vs Choate Rosemary Hall.

This is where the 50% of Ivy students come from who happily pay full price to attend, hoping to use sports just to secure an admission slot. They often go on to be on board of trustees, and make large donations leading to their names on buildings.

It's an amazing world out there.

You mentioned that all your offers were different, so the school defined their definition of your need differently and meets 100% of it. That's great, but what if that is not 100% of what you really need.

Now they see the offers you have from schools B and C. Well they can come back to you and say, heh we redid the aid calculation, and redefined your need. We'll still cover 100% of it and you now pay $10000 less than last week's offer.

If Duke, Northwestern and Stanford offer a true full scholarship of all Cost of Attendance, plus Alston money for expenses, and a small collective NIL, the Ivy cannot possibly match that.

They can only give improved financial aid up to the largest possible definition of 'meeting 100% of financial need'.

They then have to produce a 'Financial Aid Award' sheet that backs this up and will stand scrutiny.

They only match other ivies.

I think that’s generally true, although Cornell will match MIT, Stanford, Duke.

But “match” means need-based aid only, and that they will apply the same formulas and methodologies as other schools.

And, important to note that they do this for all admitted students, not just athletes. Athletes just have the advantage of it happening during the pre-read process without having been admitted to other schools.

Yes. This thread sort of got off track but always interesting to see how little people know about how aid and scholarships work. We had the one guy arguing for days about the Ivies lowering the price to snag athletes. Then we have people claim that Ivies will match state schools. Front page of Iy League webpage clearly states that the Ivies provide no academic or athletic scholarships. Matching Stanford or MIT essentially is a marketing gimmick becuase the price will be very similar to Cornell.

MIT and Stanford need based aid is usually quite a bit more generous than Cornell, partly because they don’t consider home equity.

Sorry, did a little research here. The fellow who won Foot Locker does indeed attend Philips Andover. There is a chance that he is on scholarship there, and would be eligible for fin aid in college.

If that's the case, more power to him, he has a great group of mentors.

Still most kids at the top 50 prep schools (yes there is even a ranking list) come from very wealthy families.

Cornell only considers a portion of home equity limiting it to 1.5 times AGI and even then, 5% of that number is added to the bottom line. So if a family has AGI of $160K and $800K in home equity, $240K of home equity is included and 5% is added to the price. I guess that does add $12K though. The Cornell price may be $82K as opposed to MIT price of $70K.

I appreciate your comment. So that is the same for every program correct? I see what you are saying but does that not also apply to schools such as Arkansas, Stanford, Florida, Georgia? Football and basketball are always going to be generators but if things go as anticipated and universities begin paying athletes as employees, track athletes are going to get something albeit small in comparison to football/basketball. A track kid at Georgia or Florida is still getting their "training, nutrition, physio, health, equipment and travel costs paid by the university." So I think what she was driving at is why should the Florida gator get paid but the ivy athlete not? Are the non-ivy kids doing something different than the ivy kids? True track are not money makers for the university but that goes across all universities. What income are the non-ivy track kids driving in that they should be compensated?

And I 100% agree what she did on the track while its not going to draw awareness to general applicants to Penn it did have a direct affect on recruiting specifically for the track program. There are freshmen on that program today that decided on Penn because of what they saw her do there and what the coaching staff . That was the only reason I even commented as folks were calling her smug

That didn't happen for me in the early 2000s. My mother tried to get Dartmouth to match Harvard's offer for me, going to financial aid in person while I was there for a recruiting trip. Dartmouth said they couldn't. There was about $12k difference between their offers.

Maybe it's different now, but they didn't do it then.

Though it was a good while ago, I can agree that Stanford's need-based aid--at least my package--was indeed somewhat more generous than Cornell's. I wasn't particularly tempted, because I'd already heard from my top two choices (CU and Caltech--which also generated a nice aid package) and their aid was certainly adequate, but I did notice Stanford's largess and remember being favorably impressed.