Have you ever raced Mt. Sac?? It’s not some cupcake golf course
That fact that Mt SAC isn't the easiest course doesn't change the fact that the top runners who ran Mt SAC the week before the state meet weren't going all out.
CIF Finals is an all-out effort. You don't realize this but being SS champion is huge. It is like a state meet and they treat it as such.
Both the Hedengren and Tuohy NXN races were great performances and like you, I don't see much difference.
Me thinks New York Bill and his “Speed Rating” are heavily biased and largely irrelevant.
Running in the rain and mud, Hedengren ran faster on that course than Tuohy ever did in optimum conditions when it was dry. If it had been dry Saturday, Hedengren would have obliterated Tuohy’s record.
Agreed. Not much diference. But on the issue of the overall talent in the field, Chimel was a convincing second and Chimel's Great Edinburgh win a few weeks after NXN was among the most impressive results by a US junior runner in XC. She beat the best junior xc runners in Europe, including the likes of Battocletti. She then went on to confirm her talent in the NCAA. That is who 15 year old Tuohy beat by 40 seconds. I think high school runners today are generally faster and maybe more professionalized and polished than they were back in 2017, but I would be curious to see if any of the runners achieve comparable xc results.
Chmiel's Great Edinburgh run is nice, but it's largely irrelevant. Not every really fast kid bothers to try out for USA teams; they are expensive and mess up the high school season.
Great runners like Tuohy, Fernandez, Cook, Riggs, Fisher, Hocker etc never bothered with U20 xc.
If we decide to value U20, our best recent females are Shea, Zealand and Macchia and that's clearly not the case, as these runners are good, but not winning at high school level. They are just the best who decided to try out.
I agree peak Touhy and so far peak Hedengren really about the same, but it has nothing to do with how Chmiel (and Lane) ran at the Great Edinburgh race.
The other element that separates Touhy is her excellence over her entire 10-12th grade career. Despite some injury, Touhy was winning national titles in xc and track in every season of those years.
Other excellent runners like Hutchins, Dudek, Thorvaldson, Cook, Riggs, Frias, Shea, Zealand, Leachman and now Hedengren have all had their record breaking moments, but were not dominant or consistent over their entire high school career.
Both the Hedengren and Tuohy NXN races were great performances and like you, I don't see much difference.
Me thinks New York Bill and his “Speed Rating” are heavily biased and largely irrelevant.
Running in the rain and mud, Hedengren ran faster on that course than Tuohy ever did in optimum conditions when it was dry. If it had been dry Saturday, Hedengren would have obliterated Tuohy’s record.
You are right, Tuohy was not running quite at her best the 2nd half of that XC season following her knee flaring up. The sophomore Tuohy also would have run a lot faster than the Junior record setting Tuohy did.
Most dominant XC performance I've ever seen in 45 years following the sport. Crazy.
16:32pt, running alone. 40 seconds ahead of 2nd place. Ridiculous.
Would have been 80th in Boys race??? Just awesome.
An excellent performance, with a winning margin the same as 2017. As far as her place in the B race goes, she had the advantage of running in the first race of the day (and being the first G the whole way) so she had the best conditions of the day.
“Same margin” this year against a peloton of runners that is far and away much superior in caliber and sheer numbers than Tuohy ever ran against on that course.
Nice of you Tuohyites to keep arguing stupidily, because more and more people are waking up to how insanely biased you and the Speed Rating actually are.
Me thinks New York Bill and his “Speed Rating” are heavily biased and largely irrelevant.
Running in the rain and mud, Hedengren ran faster on that course than Tuohy ever did in optimum conditions when it was dry. If it had been dry Saturday, Hedengren would have obliterated Tuohy’s record.
You are right, Tuohy was not running quite at her best the 2nd half of that XC season following her knee flaring up. The sophomore Tuohy also would have run a lot faster than the Junior record setting Tuohy did.
Do you think Englehardt, the high school mile record holder, was at 100% after suffering an injury when she took down the all-time Woodward Park course record?
Tuohyites just keep hand-waving and excuse making. It’s pathetic.
But she ran to win while the guys in the pack were trying their hardest. She would have run much faster in the boys' race.
you are delusional. As good as she is, if she was in the B race she would have gotten buried in the middle of the 200 B runners and stuck in the much worse course conditions and probably would have run 15-20 seconds slower.
You are right, Tuohy was not running quite at her best the 2nd half of that XC season following her knee flaring up. The sophomore Tuohy also would have run a lot faster than the Junior record setting Tuohy did.
Do you think Englehardt, the high school mile record holder, was at 100% after suffering an injury when she took down the all-time Woodward Park course record?
Tuohyites just keep hand-waving and excuse making. It’s pathetic.
Gee, maybe that record was soft? Or maybe different runners were affected by different injuries/training impacts.
But she ran to win while the guys in the pack were trying their hardest. She would have run much faster in the boys' race.
you are delusional. As good as she is, if she was in the B race she would have gotten buried in the middle of the 200 B runners and stuck in the much worse course conditions and probably would have run 15-20 seconds slower.
You obviously don't know muchabout racing if you think those boys weren't trying. That us insulting. And if you watched, you woukd have seen that she looked relaxed. The middle.of the pack boys were dropping like flies at the finish while she was smiling. She would have run 20 seconds faster in the boys' race. Stop putting her down. It is a bad look.
Most dominant XC performance I've ever seen in 45 years following the sport. Crazy.
16:32pt, running alone. 40 seconds ahead of 2nd place. Ridiculous.
Would have been 80th in Boys race??? Just awesome.
I don’t know why anyone is even trying to compare it to Tuohy’s previous record. The conditions were awful on Saturday and she decimated an all-time great field.
Do you think Englehardt, the high school mile record holder, was at 100% after suffering an injury when she took down the all-time Woodward Park course record?
Tuohyites just keep hand-waving and excuse making. It’s pathetic.
Gee, maybe that record was soft? Or maybe different runners were affected by different injuries/training impacts.
Record was “soft”? Is anybody else reading this stuff? You NE putzes keep decrying the achievements of California runners, thinking their sheer numbers and caliber don’t measure up on ‘true’ cross-country courses. But the fact is, you are delusional. From Crystal Springs, to Woodward Park, to Mt. Sac, with some Balboa thrown in, those courses are tough. Interjecting pavement every now and then, particularly on a steep downhill can really beat a runner up, like Sadie found out.
Do you think Englehardt, the high school mile record holder, was at 100% after suffering an injury when she took down the all-time Woodward Park course record?
Tuohyites just keep hand-waving and excuse making. It’s pathetic.
Glad you raised this. I'm thrilled for Sadie that she got both the mile and Woodward Park xc records!
She has an amazing California xc resume:
3 x Div2 State Champ
2 x Overall CA State Merge Champ
4 x NXN qualifier (only ran twice)
1 x Foot Locker West Champ
2 x Foot Locker qualifier
All Time Course Record at Woodward Park (Times #1 and #4)
Unfortunately, she has just been snake bitten at all 4 of her national meets, never running her best and never finishing higher than 10th.
Like Touhy she had amazing longevity, being a national contender in grades 9-12!
In our sport, however, all time lists are based on your actual results, not what you could have run. Lack of a national title kind of knocks Sadie out of the all time great xc runners list.
Even just in CA, Baxter, Lane, Trotter, Hasay, Oakley and Bei may not have run faster than Sadie in xc, but they all managed to win national titles.
Gee, maybe that record was soft? Or maybe different runners were affected by different injuries/training impacts.
Record was “soft”? Is anybody else reading this stuff? You NE putzes keep decrying the achievements of California runners, thinking their sheer numbers and caliber don’t measure up on ‘true’ cross-country courses. But the fact is, you are delusional. From Crystal Springs, to Woodward Park, to Mt. Sac, with some Balboa thrown in, those courses are tough. Interjecting pavement every now and then, particularly on a steep downhill can really beat a runner up, like Sadie found out.
Sadie ended up sacrificing the rest of her season when she took down Claudia Lane’s all-time course record at the vaunted Woodward Park. Here it is, brought to you in living color by Po Man Productions. Look at this course and try and tell us it’s not a tough course, that can beat a runner up:
Most dominant XC performance I've ever seen in 45 years following the sport. Crazy.
16:32pt, running alone. 40 seconds ahead of 2nd place. Ridiculous.
Would have been 80th in Boys race??? Just awesome.
I don’t know why anyone is even trying to compare it to Tuohy’s previous record. The conditions were awful on Saturday and she decimated an all-time great field.
No comparison. This is the most dominant XC race of all-time.
(At the line she was smiling. The pack came thru 40 sec later and was falling down)
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.