Of course it's "rife with doping" but that's not PC as we say in the legal biz. It's not probable cause. Either get your Nancy Drew on and literally catch some athletes with some substances or stop harping on it on every single thread. Time to sh*t or get off the pot. This is a thread about Sifan Hassan and her achievements, and unless you're going find some substances in her possession or in her body, at some time that's relevant to this race, I'm not interested. I'm talking about real evidence. I'm not talking about so and so was her coach in 2019 or whatever. Get your camera and your notebook and go! Solve this crime!
Otherwise, therapy and SSRIs will probably help you with this obsession.
When you were watching the peloton in the TDF a few years back it was confirmed they were all doping. Yet according to WADA track and field is now a worse doping offender than cycling. Tell me about those clean track and field athletes and marathon runners. The wilful naivety and denial in this place is almost performance enhanced.
I'm not in denial. I never said anyone was clean. I said go catch a doper if you're so concerned about doping.
My attitude is that there is a regulatory scheme in place for the sport. It's probably inadequate, and like any regulatory scheme it was never capable of stopping all violations. But the scheme is baked into the sport. I'm not going to address speculative violations of the scheme.
Finally, some achievements are so cool that they override concerns about doping. Here are a couple of hypotheticals: 1) Sticking to your secretive doping regime, winning your gold medal and taking it to the bank = toxic and corrosive. 2) Getting hopped up on amphetamines and Nandro and winning ALL THE RACES = possibly cool. That's not to say that I think it's what Hassan is doing. I think the ridiculous chutzpa of what she's attempting makes it more likely that she's clean.
Finally, what your doing is essentially the equivalent of coming into a conversation about TV shows to say that you don't watch TV and TV is evil.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
btw maybe a good thread to ask if Sifan Hassan has ever been outkicked at a distance over 5000m ?
Back in 2019 is the only time I can clearly remember her outkicked, but only 1500m against Dibaba who looked like she went deep into the well gritting her teeth and was destroying herself while Hassan look like her classical flailing finish
That was a 1500. She has been outkicked many times in the 1500. That's why she has a bunch of Bronze medals (and 1 Gold) in the event.
How about this time in Monaco 2021? None of the women she has beaten in the marathon have the kick of Kipyegon or Chebet.
When you were watching the peloton in the TDF a few years back it was confirmed they were all doping. Yet according to WADA track and field is now a worse doping offender than cycling. Tell me about those clean track and field athletes and marathon runners. The wilful naivety and denial in this place is almost performance enhanced.
I'm not in denial. I never said anyone was clean. I said go catch a doper if you're so concerned about doping.
My attitude is that there is a regulatory scheme in place for the sport. It's probably inadequate, and like any regulatory scheme it was never capable of stopping all violations. But the scheme is baked into the sport. I'm not going to address speculative violations of the scheme.
Finally, some achievements are so cool that they override concerns about doping. Here are a couple of hypotheticals: 1) Sticking to your secretive doping regime, winning your gold medal and taking it to the bank = toxic and corrosive. 2) Getting hopped up on amphetamines and Nandro and winning ALL THE RACES = possibly cool. That's not to say that I think it's what Hassan is doing. I think the ridiculous chutzpa of what she's attempting makes it more likely that she's clean.
Finally, what your doing is essentially the equivalent of coming into a conversation about TV shows to say that you don't watch TV and TV is evil.
Not quite. It's saying that I know the sport we are watching is now chiefly about who is doped the best. Which brings us to the subject of the thread.
I'm not in denial. I never said anyone was clean. I said go catch a doper if you're so concerned about doping.
My attitude is that there is a regulatory scheme in place for the sport. It's probably inadequate, and like any regulatory scheme it was never capable of stopping all violations. But the scheme is baked into the sport. I'm not going to address speculative violations of the scheme.
Finally, some achievements are so cool that they override concerns about doping. Here are a couple of hypotheticals: 1) Sticking to your secretive doping regime, winning your gold medal and taking it to the bank = toxic and corrosive. 2) Getting hopped up on amphetamines and Nandro and winning ALL THE RACES = possibly cool. That's not to say that I think it's what Hassan is doing. I think the ridiculous chutzpa of what she's attempting makes it more likely that she's clean.
Finally, what your doing is essentially the equivalent of coming into a conversation about TV shows to say that you don't watch TV and TV is evil.
Not quite. It's saying that I know the sport we are watching is now chiefly about who is doped the best. Which brings us to the subject of the thread.
Why do you even bother. Like I said, go catch a doper! Don't just spread rumors!
Not quite. It's saying that I know the sport we are watching is now chiefly about who is doped the best. Which brings us to the subject of the thread.
Why do you even bother. Like I said, go catch a doper! Don't just spread rumors!
I don't "bother" to do anything. I can simply see what is glaringly in front of me. I don't have to ignore it or pretend it isn't there - as most fans do. Those whose responsibility it is to prevent or eradicate it have failed. Doping has won and it isn't a "rumour". The sport is worse than cycling for doping violations. Do you think you're watching a clean sport if you watch cycling?
Why do you even bother. Like I said, go catch a doper! Don't just spread rumors!
I don't "bother" to do anything. I can simply see what is glaringly in front of me. I don't have to ignore it or pretend it isn't there - as most fans do. Those whose responsibility it is to prevent or eradicate it have failed. Doping has won and it isn't a "rumour". The sport is worse than cycling for doping violations. Do you think you're watching a clean sport if you watch cycling?
At no point did I ever say I was watching a clean sport. Please show me a positive drug test or series of three whereabouts violations for Sifan Hassan, or gather some CONCRETE evidence (i.e. not guilt by association or speculation based on performance). Otherwise your point has been made. Catch a doper! Don't just talk.
Whining and lecturing doesn't make the sport any cleaner.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
I don't "bother" to do anything. I can simply see what is glaringly in front of me. I don't have to ignore it or pretend it isn't there - as most fans do. Those whose responsibility it is to prevent or eradicate it have failed. Doping has won and it isn't a "rumour". The sport is worse than cycling for doping violations. Do you think you're watching a clean sport if you watch cycling?
At no point did I ever say I was watching a clean sport. Please show me a positive drug test or series of three whereabouts violations for Sifan Hassan, or gather some CONCRETE evidence (i.e. not guilt by association or speculation based on performance). Otherwise your point has been made. Catch a doper! Don't just talk.
Whining and lecturing doesn't make the sport any cleaner.
If you accept what I say about the sport then you are effectively agreeing with me, that with the best athletes you are watching dopers. That is because not I, nor WADA, nor anyone else, can catch them.
If they're all doping then they're all competing on a level playing field, and I'm not seeing any other runner accomplishing what Hassan is doing
Doping isn't a level playing field. That is why athletes dope; to gain an advantage on the competition. But you're effectively saying you're ok with watching the Enhanced Games.
If they're all doping then they're all competing on a level playing field, and I'm not seeing any other runner accomplishing what Hassan is doing
Doping isn't a level playing field. That is why athletes dope; to gain an advantage on the competition. But you're effectively saying you're ok with watching the Enhanced Games.
You're the one saying they're all doping, not me. So with your logic it's a level playing field
My stance is that you can't get rid of doping fully and you have to prove that they're doping rather than proving they're not.
Doping isn't a level playing field. That is why athletes dope; to gain an advantage on the competition. But you're effectively saying you're ok with watching the Enhanced Games.
You're the one saying they're all doping, not me. So with your logic it's a level playing field
My stance is that you can't get rid of doping fully and you have to prove that they're doping rather than proving they're not.
You don't understand doping. It doesn't affect all athletes equally. Nor do they all dope the same. Furthermore, I don't say that 100% of elites dope. Estimates from athlete surveys indicate it may be closer to 1 in 3 or 1 in 2. You have to understand why athletes dope. They don't do it to make the competition equal but to gain an advantage. And that's what it does. Overall average performances will increase with widespread doping but some gain more than others.
You're the one saying they're all doping, not me. So with your logic it's a level playing field
My stance is that you can't get rid of doping fully and you have to prove that they're doping rather than proving they're not.
You don't understand doping. It doesn't affect all athletes equally. Nor do they all dope the same. Furthermore, I don't say that 100% of elites dope. Estimates from athlete surveys indicate it may be closer to 1 in 3 or 1 in 2. You have to understand why athletes dope. They don't do it to make the competition equal but to gain an advantage. And that's what it does. Overall average performances will increase with widespread doping but some gain more than others.
But you refuse to admit that you don't actually know which athletes are doping, and I'm not interested in what athletes you think are doping.
There is a system designed to catch dopers. The system needs to change. Armstronglivs is not a sufficient or worthy stopgap until that happens.
Also, there have always been dopers and there always will be, so the fully clean sport that you envision will never exist.
If your goal is to try to get me not to appreciate Sifan Hassan, it's gonna take a more than this.
I have no desire to watch the Olympics and look for unremarkable performances so I can say "not doping." Part of the reason for that is that unremarkable performances can be doped too.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
Of course it's "rife with doping" but that's not PC as we say in the legal biz. It's not probable cause. Either get your Nancy Drew on and literally catch some athletes with some substances or stop harping on it on every single thread. Time to sh*t or get off the pot. This is a thread about Sifan Hassan and her achievements, and unless you're going find some substances in her possession or in her body, at some time that's relevant to this race, I'm not interested. I'm talking about real evidence. I'm not talking about so and so was her coach in 2019 or whatever. Get your camera and your notebook and go! Solve this crime!
Otherwise, therapy and SSRIs will probably help you with this obsession.
When you were watching the peloton in the TDF a few years back it was confirmed they were all doping. Yet according to WADA track and field is now a worse doping offender than cycling. Tell me about those clean track and field athletes and marathon runners. The wilful naivety and denial in this place is almost performance enhanced.
What the first guy said - what is your physical evidence? Seriously, what did YOU detect in her body? Try to stay on point and explain it without referring to other sports or what you think Wada said. You know you have no proof that she's doping, other than she is fast and wins a lot.
You say stuff like - prove they are clean. Well, they have not tested positive, so this is the proof. What is your physical proof they are dirty? We've done our side, your turn.
You don't understand doping. It doesn't affect all athletes equally. Nor do they all dope the same. Furthermore, I don't say that 100% of elites dope. Estimates from athlete surveys indicate it may be closer to 1 in 3 or 1 in 2. You have to understand why athletes dope. They don't do it to make the competition equal but to gain an advantage. And that's what it does. Overall average performances will increase with widespread doping but some gain more than others.
But you refuse to admit that you don't actually know which athletes are doping, and I'm not interested in what athletes you think are doping.
There is a system designed to catch dopers. The system needs to change. Armstronglivs is not a sufficient or worthy stopgap until that happens.
Also, there have always been dopers and there always will be, so the fully clean sport that you envision will never exist.
If your goal is to try to get me not to appreciate Sifan Hassan, it's gonna take a more than this.
I have no desire to watch the Olympics and look for unremarkable performances so I can say "not doping." Part of the reason for that is that unremarkable performances can be doped too.
Athlete surveys show that doping is prevalent at a championship level. It also shows that very few are caught. Given that drugs are aiding performances (it is a billion dollar black market) it follows that the dopers are succeeding over the clean athletes. Then when we see athletes utterly dominant over other athletes who will be doping it is inconceivable they could do so clean. So the "outliers" are more likely to be doped than anyone else we see. It is similar to cycling. The peloton in the TDF was known to be doped to the last rider. Athletics has more doping violations than cycling. So that tells us what we are seeing at the top of T and F. Nothing clean. The sport is now all about doping and who dopes the best.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.