Tonight in Portland the continuing saga of McDaniel High’s dude running with the “girls” team (might not be only trans dude on the girls team) lowered his PR’s greatly and threatens to take individual state titles next week in both events and threaten state records set by Mia Brahe-Petersen and Josie Donelson, elite national female sprinters. The State Meet in Eugene will be the focus of the entire sports world next week due to horrifically poor leadership by the state governing organization, OSAA, which is allowing this injustice and travesty to undermine the integrity of girls sport. The IOC set rules prohibiting this for this very reason. If this stands then next year expect to see dozens of boys declaring themselves to be trans and run in the girls division, some in protest, some to exploit the moronic rule put in place by Oregon officials.
A trans dude is a biological female that turned male...so why do you have a problem with biological females racing biological females? Or have you mixed up your genders?
They are so bent on offending transwomen that they end up using the right terminology out of sheer rage.
We live in a brainwashed society. 7 page thread with literal libtards thinking men with mental issues racing women is OK.
approx 50% of the country is liberal - look at the votes for the posts - men running womens races isn't a liberal issue. I know I'm liberal. it is the very fringe who insist on asinine points and views that are so incredibly far from common sense
Transgender policies have never an initiative on a ballot for an election, and it’s only a small group of people that determine them. Legal advice is probably given the most weight.
You don't think this is okay because you don't think trans people are human beings with equal rights as yourself. If they are equal, then the 7th best sprinter deserves to be 7th best whether she competes against men or against women.
Instead, you think trans people are underclass people whose existence should be barely tolerated by people like yourself.
Oh good grief. The hyperbole you constantly resort to really doesn't do you or your agenda any favors. It reminds me of Nikita Khrushchev banging his shoe.
Plus, you're so prone to seeing "hate" in every post that disagrees with you - and you're so quick to come back with harrumphing homilies in which you make ridiculous accusations like "you don't think trans people are human beings with equal rights as yourself" - that you completely miss the point of other people's posts half the time.
The way I read rojo's posts is that he thinks male people who have, or claim to have, trans gender identities are human beings who have, and should have, the exact same rights as he and all other males have. Which in sports means the right to compete against others of the same sex in either the male or open category. And, if they wish, to create, or campaign for others to create, a new bespoke sports category more to the liking of males who identify as trans.
When you demand that males be allowed to use gender identity claims to get into female sports, you're not promoting "equal rights" for "trans people" - you're promoting special privileges/entitlements for male people who say they identify as trans, and only those male people. Special privileges that mean an end to girls' and women's hard-won rights.
What you're advocating isn't equality and human rights - it's male supremacy and new kinds of "male privilege."
Oh good grief. You seem incapable of any self awareness. You jump up and down in the hyperbole trampoline train with the greatest ferocity at the slightest provocation. Your bitter posts attribute so much gratuitous negativity to trans people as well as all men. And you can’t even write without sounding like a dimwit thesaurus, sort of like the attorney Jackie Chiles from Seinfeld.
If we accept the premise that biological sex and gender are separate why is it so hard for some people to understand that sports categories of competition are based on biological sex, not gender. Call yourself whatever gender you want, it's irrelevant to which biological sex category you're eligible to compete in. There's absolutely no reason to have sports categories that are based on gender. It's not discriminating against trans individuals, it's just acknowledging it's a biological category not a gender. It seems like trans activists want to claim gender and sex are related when they feel discriminated against but that they're completely separate when they want to change their gender.
If we accept the premise that biological sex and gender are separate why is it so hard for some people to understand that sports categories of competition are based on biological sex, not gender. Call yourself whatever gender you want, it's irrelevant to which biological sex category you're eligible to compete in. There's absolutely no reason to have sports categories that are based on gender. It's not discriminating against trans individuals, it's just acknowledging it's a biological category not a gender. It seems like trans activists want to claim gender and sex are related when they feel discriminated against but that they're completely separate when they want to change their gender.
You will not get an answer to this question because it is impossible for them to answer.
Note how critical theorists deconstruct everything other than their own arguments. As you suggest, gender is an inane term. If it means 'what you identify as', it is simply a synonym for personality. So, before the world decided to go insane, we would have simply said that a girl was a 'tom boy' or that a young man was 'effeminate'.
Also, as you so correctly point out, we arrange our society on sex categories and that fundamental biological split. School, sport, our shared social spaces and privacy, legislation, workplace rights, pensions.....everything. All divided by sex.
The progressive scumbags do not care about young boys and girls and they do not care about sport. All they want is control. It is born of Marxist dogma peddled in universities and is used as a destructive battering ram for their political ends.
Do not give them an inch. Do not agree to even debate the issue.
We live in a brainwashed society. 7 page thread with literal libtards thinking men with mental issues racing women is OK.
approx 50% of the country is liberal - look at the votes for the posts - men running womens races isn't a liberal issue. I know I'm liberal. it is the very fringe who insist on asinine points and views that are so incredibly far from common sense
No, it's not the fringe. You are wrong. Completely wrong. The Trans stuff is mainstream liberal now not some hidden away sect of the left.
Fringe stuff doesn't get celebrated by the MSM and pushed. Fringe stuff doesn't get laws passed to protect them.
When you have trans people pulling their fake breasts out at the White House that's not fringe.
When you have MULTIPLE cases of mentally ill men running in women's races that's not fringe.
If we accept the premise that biological sex and gender are separate why is it so hard for some people to understand that sports categories of competition are based on biological sex, not gender. Call yourself whatever gender you want, it's irrelevant to which biological sex category you're eligible to compete in. There's absolutely no reason to have sports categories that are based on gender. It's not discriminating against trans individuals, it's just acknowledging it's a biological category not a gender. It seems like trans activists want to claim gender and sex are related when they feel discriminated against but that they're completely separate when they want to change their gender.
You and your buddies seem rather illiterate and unaware of lengthy eligibility documents put forward by the sport’s governing bodies that make it manifest that
1) the sport is based on gender, not sex;
2) sex verification was thrown out last century;
3) “Transgender Female” is a recognized and defined term by WA, and “female” and “woman” are used interchangeably at many places in WA documents.
If we accept the premise that biological sex and gender are separate why is it so hard for some people to understand that sports categories of competition are based on biological sex, not gender. Call yourself whatever gender you want, it's irrelevant to which biological sex category you're eligible to compete in. There's absolutely no reason to have sports categories that are based on gender. It's not discriminating against trans individuals, it's just acknowledging it's a biological category not a gender. It seems like trans activists want to claim gender and sex are related when they feel discriminated against but that they're completely separate when they want to change their gender.
You and your buddies seem rather illiterate and unaware of lengthy eligibility documents put forward by the sport’s governing bodies that make it manifest that
1) the sport is based on gender, not sex;
2) sex verification was thrown out last century;
3) “Transgender Female” is a recognized and defined term by WA, and “female” and “woman” are used interchangeably at many places in WA documents.
If we accept the premise that biological sex and gender are separate why is it so hard for some people to understand that sports categories of competition are based on biological sex, not gender. Call yourself whatever gender you want, it's irrelevant to which biological sex category you're eligible to compete in. There's absolutely no reason to have sports categories that are based on gender. It's not discriminating against trans individuals, it's just acknowledging it's a biological category not a gender. It seems like trans activists want to claim gender and sex are related when they feel discriminated against but that they're completely separate when they want to change their gender.
You and your buddies seem rather illiterate and unaware of lengthy eligibility documents put forward by the sport’s governing bodies that make it manifest that
1) the sport is based on gender, not sex;
2) sex verification was thrown out last century;
3) “Transgender Female” is a recognized and defined term by WA, and “female” and “woman” are used interchangeably at many places in WA documents.
Maybe you just don’t belong to the sport of T&F.
I'll do the best I can with my illiteracy but you're not correct with your statements. Sport isn't based on gender, if it were there would be no requirements other than your gender to determine which classification to compete in.
I'm clearly not suggesting physical examination of athletes bodies for sex verification. I'm referring the the changes that occur during male puberty. If you want to use another term to refer to male puberty, that's fine with me but that's what I'm referring to.
I'd suggest you reread the world athletics documents. If your premise was correct that sports is solely based on gender, section 3.2 of Eligibility regulations for transgender athletes would read:
To be eligible to compete in the female classification at a World Rankings Competition and a Transgender female Athlete must meet the following condition:
"They must provide a written and signed declaration, in a form satisfactory to the Medical Manager, that their gender identity is female."
Instead the actual requirements are in addition to gender identity:
3.2.2 They must not have experienced any part of male puberty either beyond Tanner Stage 2 or after age 12 (whichever comes first).
3.2.3 Since puberty they must have continuously maintained the concentration of testosterone in their serum below 2.5 nmol/L.
3.2.4 They must continue to maintain the concentration of testosterone in their serum below 2.5 nmol/L at all times (i.e., whether they are in competition or out of competition) for so long as they wish to retain eligibility to compete in the female classification at World Rankings Competitions and/or have recognised any World Record performance in the female classification at a competition that is not a World Rankings Competition.
So unless you're arguing that male puberty is something that is unrelated to biology, classifications are not strictly gender classifications.
You and your buddies seem rather illiterate and unaware of lengthy eligibility documents put forward by the sport’s governing bodies that make it manifest that
1) the sport is based on gender, not sex;
2) sex verification was thrown out last century;
3) “Transgender Female” is a recognized and defined term by WA, and “female” and “woman” are used interchangeably at many places in WA documents.
Maybe you just don’t belong to the sport of T&F.
I'll do the best I can with my illiteracy but you're not correct with your statements. Sport isn't based on gender, if it were there would be no requirements other than your gender to determine which classification to compete in.
I'm clearly not suggesting physical examination of athletes bodies for sex verification. I'm referring the the changes that occur during male puberty. If you want to use another term to refer to male puberty, that's fine with me but that's what I'm referring to.
I'd suggest you reread the world athletics documents. If your premise was correct that sports is solely based on gender, section 3.2 of Eligibility regulations for transgender athletes would read:
To be eligible to compete in the female classification at a World Rankings Competition and a Transgender female Athlete must meet the following condition:
"They must provide a written and signed declaration, in a form satisfactory to the Medical Manager, that their gender identity is female."
Instead the actual requirements are in addition to gender identity:
3.2.2 They must not have experienced any part of male puberty either beyond Tanner Stage 2 or after age 12 (whichever comes first).
3.2.3 Since puberty they must have continuously maintained the concentration of testosterone in their serum below 2.5 nmol/L.
3.2.4 They must continue to maintain the concentration of testosterone in their serum below 2.5 nmol/L at all times (i.e., whether they are in competition or out of competition) for so long as they wish to retain eligibility to compete in the female classification at World Rankings Competitions and/or have recognised any World Record performance in the female classification at a competition that is not a World Rankings Competition.
So unless you're arguing that male puberty is something that is unrelated to biology, classifications are not strictly gender classifications.
Awesome, you seem moderately literate indeed. You haven’t disagreed with anything I actually said.
My comment wasn’t about sport in general, only T&F as I explicitly note and should be implicit on this forum.
Male puberty is just a performance-determinative criterion based on where current research is, but it clearly allows for sex to be overruled by gender. Sex as I understand it, to the extent poorly defined by folks here, is binary and unchangeable after birth. WA clearly says that isn’t the case. You can be born as a male and compete as a female.
You and your buddies seem rather illiterate and unaware of lengthy eligibility documents put forward by the sport’s governing bodies that make it manifest that
1) the sport is based on gender, not sex;
2) sex verification was thrown out last century;
3) “Transgender Female” is a recognized and defined term by WA, and “female” and “woman” are used interchangeably at many places in WA documents.
I'll do the best I can with my illiteracy but you're not correct with your statements. Sport isn't based on gender, if it were there would be no requirements other than your gender to determine which classification to compete in.
I'm clearly not suggesting physical examination of athletes bodies for sex verification. I'm referring the the changes that occur during male puberty. If you want to use another term to refer to male puberty, that's fine with me but that's what I'm referring to.
I'd suggest you reread the world athletics documents. If your premise was correct that sports is solely based on gender, section 3.2 of Eligibility regulations for transgender athletes would read:
To be eligible to compete in the female classification at a World Rankings Competition and a Transgender female Athlete must meet the following condition:
"They must provide a written and signed declaration, in a form satisfactory to the Medical Manager, that their gender identity is female."
Instead the actual requirements are in addition to gender identity:
3.2.2 They must not have experienced any part of male puberty either beyond Tanner Stage 2 or after age 12 (whichever comes first).
3.2.3 Since puberty they must have continuously maintained the concentration of testosterone in their serum below 2.5 nmol/L.
3.2.4 They must continue to maintain the concentration of testosterone in their serum below 2.5 nmol/L at all times (i.e., whether they are in competition or out of competition) for so long as they wish to retain eligibility to compete in the female classification at World Rankings Competitions and/or have recognised any World Record performance in the female classification at a competition that is not a World Rankings Competition.
So unless you're arguing that male puberty is something that is unrelated to biology, classifications are not strictly gender classifications.
Awesome, you seem moderately literate indeed. You haven’t disagreed with anything I actually said.
My comment wasn’t about sport in general, only T&F as I explicitly note and should be implicit on this forum.
Male puberty is just a performance-determinative criterion based on where current research is, but it clearly allows for sex to be overruled by gender. Sex as I understand it, to the extent poorly defined by folks here, is binary and unchangeable after birth. WA clearly says that isn’t the case. You can be born as a male and compete as a female.
I was talking about T&F, that's why I quoted world athletics criteria. I understand what you're saying, your statement that you can be born male and compete as female is correct, but you also don't undergo male puberty without having certain biological characteristics. It seems to me that we're splitting hairs arguing whether male puberty is performance based or biological.
You and your buddies seem rather illiterate and unaware of lengthy eligibility documents put forward by the sport’s governing bodies that make it manifest that
1) the sport is based on gender, not sex;
2) sex verification was thrown out last century;
3) “Transgender Female” is a recognized and defined term by WA, and “female” and “woman” are used interchangeably at many places in WA documents.
Maybe you just don’t belong to the sport of T&F.
Tellling those who don't agree with you that the female classification in "sport is based on gender, not sex" that we "just don't belong in the sport of T&F" doesn't sound very "inclusive" to me.
From Montana's HB 112, a bill to protect female sports, House Judiciary Committee hearing on the morning of January 18, 2021. Representative Skees asks an AC...
Awesome, you seem moderately literate indeed. You haven’t disagreed with anything I actually said.
My comment wasn’t about sport in general, only T&F as I explicitly note and should be implicit on this forum.
Male puberty is just a performance-determinative criterion based on where current research is, but it clearly allows for sex to be overruled by gender. Sex as I understand it, to the extent poorly defined by folks here, is binary and unchangeable after birth. WA clearly says that isn’t the case. You can be born as a male and compete as a female.
I was talking about T&F, that's why I quoted world athletics criteria. I understand what you're saying, your statement that you can be born male and compete as female is correct, but you also don't undergo male puberty without having certain biological characteristics. It seems to me that we're splitting hairs arguing whether male puberty is performance based or biological.
Everything related to a human being is biological, so that’s not meaningful or well defined. Sex is commonly used around here to mean a binary classifier that is unchangeable after birth, or even soon after conception. Puberty on the other hand can be blocked or made to change course.
Are you disagreeing with this premise: sex is a trait unchangeable after birth and exists with or without puberty or anything else that happens or doesn’t happen after birth? Even I agree with that premise (even though I don’t with the premise that that sex is a good binary classifier for any practically useful purpose).
You and your buddies seem rather illiterate and unaware of lengthy eligibility documents put forward by the sport’s governing bodies that make it manifest that
1) the sport is based on gender, not sex;
2) sex verification was thrown out last century;
3) “Transgender Female” is a recognized and defined term by WA, and “female” and “woman” are used interchangeably at many places in WA documents.
Maybe you just don’t belong to the sport of T&F.
Tellling those who don't agree with you that the female classification in "sport is based on gender, not sex" that we "just don't belong in the sport of T&F" doesn't sound very "inclusive" to me.
I was talking about T&F, that's why I quoted world athletics criteria. I understand what you're saying, your statement that you can be born male and compete as female is correct, but you also don't undergo male puberty without having certain biological characteristics. It seems to me that we're splitting hairs arguing whether male puberty is performance based or biological.
Everything related to a human being is biological, so that’s not meaningful or well defined. Sex is commonly used around here to mean a binary classifier that is unchangeable after birth, or even soon after conception. Puberty on the other hand can be blocked or made to change course.
Are you disagreeing with this premise: sex is a trait unchangeable after birth and exists with or without puberty or anything else that happens or doesn’t happen after birth? Even I agree with that premise (even though I don’t with the premise that that sex is a good binary classifier for any practically useful purpose).
*any practically useful purpose beyond procreation and proximate bedroom or medical contexts.
I was talking about T&F, that's why I quoted world athletics criteria. I understand what you're saying, your statement that you can be born male and compete as female is correct, but you also don't undergo male puberty without having certain biological characteristics. It seems to me that we're splitting hairs arguing whether male puberty is performance based or biological.
Everything related to a human being is biological, so that’s not meaningful or well defined. Sex is commonly used around here to mean a binary classifier that is unchangeable after birth, or even soon after conception. Puberty on the other hand can be blocked or made to change course.
Are you disagreeing with this premise: sex is a trait unchangeable after birth and exists with or without puberty or anything else that happens or doesn’t happen after birth? Even I agree with that premise (even though I don’t with the premise that that sex is a good binary classifier for any practically useful purpose).
No, I don't disagree with your premise that sex is a trait that isn't dependent on what happens after birth. If you would prefer I say the classification is based on whether someone has undergone male puberty instead of saying biological sex I'm fine with that.
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