Middle schoolers who protested trans athlete in girls shotput competition banned from next competition. lawsuit filed

No it doesn't because nobody fully understands all of the differences between males and females. Males with complete androgen insensitivity are overrepresented in elite sport, but nobody knows why. We know that males have an average advantage and that male puberty is responsible for some of that advantage (not all), but we don't know everything there is to know. The idea that girls and women have to prove that a medicated male or a male with a DSD lacks male advantage is exactly inverted. It is on the people trying to eliminate sex-based categories to prove that it's fair. Otherwise, it's just another example of advocates and policy makers asking girls and women to prioritize males over females. And, I understand that many of the people arguing for males to compete in female categories are females. It's disturbing.

Lastly, male advantage and female disadvantage are not a zero sum game. That's because being female is not equivalent to being non-male. In other words, the presence of some female-specific traits may adversely impact sport performance (some attributes may also confer advantages).

how's that ratio treating you?

But I don't think the burden of proof should be put on those who want to keep males out of female sports. I think the burden of proof should be on those who are using the banner of "diversity and inclusion" to demand that male intrusion into female sports be accepted, normalized, legalized - and girls and women across the board should all be forced to put up with males in our sports (and locker rooms) even when this is against the wishes and will of a great many of us.

Your side has never provided convincing proof that males like BPJ don't have any advantage over their female counterparts. In all the back-and-forth you and I have had about this topic over the years on LRC, you've never presented a shred of reliable evidence proving that putting males on "puberty blockers" and Big Pharma estrogen makes them so physically similar to female people in all the ways that matter in sports that they are on the exact same level.

You want everyone to take it on faith that males like Becky Pepper Jackson don't have any advantage over the females these males want to compete with/against just because you say so and wish it to be so. When people who weren't born yesterday and are wary of con jobs and snake-oil salesmen say we're not willing to take your word on this - or Becky's word and the word of other gender identity idelogues like Ragehell McKinnon/Veronica Ivy, Joanna Harper and CeCe Telfer - you respond by getting out your broad brush of ad hominems and painting us all as bigoted, hateful, stupid, ignorant, morally reprehensible, right wing nutters.

But you never ever provide a shred of convincing evidence for the extraordinary claims you are making.

Even if you could prove that BPJ personally doesn't have any advantage over the female athletes BPJ desperately wants to compete with and against, I still don't get why that would mean BJP should get to compete in female sports.

Fact is, quite a few boys in middle school, HS and men in college and beyond have health conditions that probably mean they don't have an advantage over the girls and women (the female kind) who compete in female school sports in their district, league or state. Some boys and men are small, scrawny, uncoordinated, slow, weak for all sorts of reasons. But that doesn't give them a right to play and compete in female school sports.

Did the volunteer track officials get to scratch because the weather was cold and windy and rainy..........or did they have to stay at their post?

You have it backwards. It’s the parents who have to consent.

Trans are nothing but fakes, frauds, phonies and liars. And the parents who support such foolishness are failures. It's way past time that mentally healthy people fight back against this nonesense.

you just reworded the dominance thesis which is not usually how any of this works out. the girl in oregon finished second behind a girl, in a girl time. the girl in this scenario barely won shot and lost discus. no one is throwing the implement yards past the others.

in fact, that's half the reason i am ok with this. i don't believe a ton of boys are just eager to be girls' champions in some sneaky way. i think some trans boys want to compete as they see themselves, and there are some intersex kids who need a box to fit in. WA has had to tinker with their rules on intersex. but in reality trans kids aren't that dominant where it's a real, practical issue -- as you imply with your safety thesis. most, due perhaps to the wiring that makes one trans, aren't dominant male athletes, are often pretty bad, and thus make mediocre or occasionally above average girls.

people fretted about oregon girl. she wouldn't make the final in the first level towards state where i grew up. people fretted about the girl from RIT. she finished 9th. she did win some regular meets and conference, which is something to puzzle over -- but perhaps should happen if this is "competition" and not just "symbolism." but there is not some wave of lia thomases taking over. now, semenya and that group at 800, that was another story. and WA tweaked the rules. but they also hit at a lull period before mu and the brits.

my impression is trans are all over the shop in terms of how they match up. some are awful even with girls. some are ok. some are good. that's about how competition normally sorts. call me when they own the leaderboard and actually are throwing 3 yards further and officials have to dodge.

i wonder if some of the "runners" have done a meet. common courtesy if you aren't actually running or throwing is scratch, ideally while the heat sheets can be adjusted. failing that, your coach at the scratch meeting or you before it starts, tell the official, scratch me. that way they don't have to spend time awaiting your turn over and over, they skip to someone else.

now, to be fair, sometimes folks make nominal symbolic attempts. you make the olympics but pull a hammy. you go to tokyo, get in the blocks, stand up. or sometimes folks have a bad day and either make crap performances, foul them all, or even scratch themselves it's so bad.

it is so NOT normal to walk in the ring, healthy, put shot to chin, then walk back out. i ran most of a decade and never once scratched or nominally performed. the kids did not step through and foul, or drop a short measurable toss. they in fact intended to convey their readiness to compete, "except...."

NCAA has a rule where this wouldn't fly, but this is kids, and even at college level i don't know if i care one way or the other on that unless you actually disrupt others. states might have some rules but that's not the issue here. this is a coach's decision. i think it's contrary to the spirit of taking kids to a meet, contrary to the basic courtesies meets get smoothed by. i think in terms of the sport it's an indulgent act, but not a red card, so to speak. but there are many things which while not red cards from the authorities, might get you benched by your coach.

What is so sad, is that, in America, we have gone sooooo overboard in trying never to offend anyone and that everyones opinions are equal, that we have created a group of young people that cant even figure out their own gender. Talk about disabling kids by adults having not having anymore standards. Does anyone in the US actually stand for anything except the far left or the far right?

My point was that if 20 kids competed, and 4 more walked to the circle and made a choice, the vast majority of kids managed to cope somehow.

You've never felt either overmatched or messed over by an event, and played anyway? I might not come back next year but I am not a quitter. I'm gonna put up my time and we'll see where I finish. Bears reminding this was a championship meet, not an ordinary one, and your decision is costing the team points, and yourself whatever finish you'd have achieved. It's not 10 trans kids winning everything. It's 1 kid who won 1 of 2 events. 5-7 points paying spots on offer and a chance to set your PR. If they are any good, it's a challenge. Some girl beat the one out in OR. 8 women beat the RIT girl at nationals.

Or is this where conservatives turn into participation trophy folks? That trophy would have been my kid's? Thought you were the well, your kid needs to get faster, folks.

To be fair, I respect having the odd principle, but the event had rules, the competitor fit within the rules, and most of the field coped and competed. One can view it from a sporting perspective as retreating from precisely the sort of challenge you folks sell in various other endeavors.

Does it really? I was really shocked when I first read this story and then found out it was Becky Pepper Jackson, because she is always portrayed as this delicate little girl who just wants to be with her friends. She won her county in shot put and came in second in discus, and appears to have gotten much bigger than she is in her most famous photo. Does she really not have an advantage? How would you know that?

In absence of proof, the fact that Becky is actually a boy should disqualify her from girl's sports.

The burden of proof should be on the person who asserts the positive, like "even though this person has XY chromosomes and male sex organs, they have no athletic advantage, and thus should be allowed to compete against girls". If you can't prove lack of advantage, and since we know Becky is a boy, Becky should compete against boys.

But what about hermaphrodites? both junk options

lol at the moron libs in this thread who are so blinded by their cult that they can't put 2 and 2 together "tHiS iSnT a LiBeRaL pOsItIoN" - who do you think is driving the bus, bozos?

I have nothing against trans people, be what ever you want, man, woman, other.....I don't care. HOWEVER if you are a man/boy and now decide that you are a woman/girl, that is fine but you cannot compete in sports against females. This country is already circling the drain, if this is allowed, it is complete insanity.

"girl" in Oregon is ranked 3rd in state in 200 and 400. Only a sophomore. In 2 years will break all-time girls record with normal "male" progression. Is that fair to the other top girls in the state?

You have "nothing against" it? "You can be what ever you want... I don't care."

There is no middle ground. What is not taboo is mandatory. Either the denial of Biology 101 is mentall illness and pedo grooming for a lifetime of sexual mutilation and suffering, or it will be something that every child will subjected to, and in fact, already are.

Either go all in on removing Bio 101 denial from Free Speech, or just accept you need to fully conform to the Brave New World.

If you vote for Leftist politicians, ALL of which support this madness, then you are complicit in this nonsense. You can justify things all you want in your warped mind but you are actively supporting those who push the Trans agenda on our nation. Therefore, you support it too.

If there's a Y chromosome, then he's a male, if not she's a female. The sexual organs themselves might never develop, or be lost in accident or something, but everyone either has a Y or doesn't.