Hilarious to see transphobes spouting on a topic that doesn’t affect their own life choices at all but purportedly for the benefit of the impacted trans children that they are convinced are mentally ill and delusional anyway.
Proverbial fox advocating policy decisions for the safety of chickens.
I can't stand it when people use allegories incorrectly. How many foxes do you know whose only demand is to leave the chickens alone? In your allegory, the 'foxes' would be those actually harming the children, i.e. those disrupting their puberty, castrating them or performing double mastectomies on them. The 'transphobes' would actually be the farmer, trying to install some common sense chicken protection.
This mention of fox and chicken allegories reminds me of the meme that shows a photo of a fox with text that says:
Poor fox says not being able to play with the chickens makes him feel sad, and hanging out in fox dens with other foxes makes him feel unsafe. So obviously, the kind thing to do is to let the sad fox into the hen house.
No need to consider how this will effect the chickens or ask them if they want the fox to be in with them. The feelings and safety of chickens don't matter - only the sad fox counts. And hens are all known to be horrible bigots and foxphobes anyway.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Hilarious to see transphobes spouting on a topic that doesn’t affect their own life choices at all but purportedly for the benefit of the impacted trans children that they are convinced are mentally ill and delusional anyway.
Proverbial fox advocating policy decisions for the safety of chickens.
I can't stand it when people use allegories incorrectly. How many foxes do you know whose only demand is to leave the chickens alone? In your allegory, the 'foxes' would be those actually harming the children, i.e. those disrupting their puberty, castrating them or performing double mastectomies on them. The 'transphobes' would actually be the farmer, trying to install some common sense chicken protection.
The most accurate measure of whether or not gender affirming care harms or hurts transgender youth is to look at actual research studies that have been conducted. All of the research studies have shown that gender affirming care is associated with decreases in depression and dysphoria. This information has been shared on these boards numerous times, but you choose to ignore the results of actual research studies and instead double-down on your personal opinion on a topic which does not affect you. Pinkle's take on this was spot on.
Here are links to a few real research studies with relevant quotations. I could provide plenty more.
This cohort study investigates whether gender-affirming care is associated with decreased depression, anxiety, and suicidality among transgender and nonbinary youths.
“In this prospective cohort of 104 TNB youths aged 13 to 20 years, receipt of gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones, was associated with 60% lower odds of moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over a 12-month follow-up.”
This study evaluates associations between gender-affirming surgeries and mental health outcomes, including psychological distress, substance use, and suicide risk.
"In this secondary analysis of the 2015 US Transgender Survey (n = 27 715), TGD people with a history of gender-affirming surgery had significantly lower odds of past-month psychological distress, past-year tobacco smoking, and past-year suicidal ideation compared with TGD people with no history of gender-affirming surgery."
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-med-043021-032007 “Key advances in the care of TGD youth include the recognition that being transgender or gender diverse is not rare, and that being TGD is no longer considered a mental illness, but rather represents an example of human diversity (6). Numerous studies, primarily of short- and medium-term duration (up to 6 years), demonstrate the clearly beneficial—even lifesaving—mental health impact of gender-affirming medical care in TGD youth. Long-term safety and efficacy studies are needed to optimize medical care for TGD youth.”
This study evaluates associations between gender-affirming surgeries and mental health outcomes, including psychological distress, substance use, and suicide risk.
“After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Wellbeing was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated with postsurgical subjective well-being.”
“A 2020 survey of 11,914 transgender or nonbinary youth, aged 13–24 years, of whom 14% were receiving GAHT, demonstrated that such treatment was associated with lower odds of recent depression and serious consideration of suicide compared to those who wanted such care but did not receive it.”
I would be shocked if many trans youth don’t deeply regret the decisions so blindly approved by today’s therapeutic community. This just seems so insanely poorly considered and poorly understood to irrevocably alter the human body after, what?, 12 months of adolescent gender questioning? Like, wtf? I say this as an AOC-supporting, Biden-voting mostly woke liberal. This is just insane.
The most accurate measure of whether or not gender affirming care harms or hurts transgender youth is to look at actual research studies that have been conducted. All of the research studies have shown that gender affirming care is associated with decreases in depression and dysphoria. This information has been shared on these boards numerous times, but you choose to ignore the results of actual research studies and instead double-down on your personal opinion on a topic which does not affect you. Pinkle's take on this was spot on.
Here are links to a few real research studies with relevant quotations. I could provide plenty more.
“In this prospective cohort of 104 TNB youths aged 13 to 20 years, receipt of gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones, was associated with 60% lower odds of moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over a 12-month follow-up.”
"In this secondary analysis of the 2015 US Transgender Survey (n = 27 715), TGD people with a history of gender-affirming surgery had significantly lower odds of past-month psychological distress, past-year tobacco smoking, and past-year suicidal ideation compared with TGD people with no history of gender-affirming surgery."
“Key advances in the care of TGD youth include the recognition that being transgender or gender diverse is not rare, and that being TGD is no longer considered a mental illness, but rather represents an example of human diversity (6). Numerous studies, primarily of short- and medium-term duration (up to 6 years), demonstrate the clearly beneficial—even lifesaving—mental health impact of gender-affirming medical care in TGD youth. Long-term safety and efficacy studies are needed to optimize medical care for TGD youth.”
“After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Wellbeing was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated with postsurgical subjective well-being.”
“A 2020 survey of 11,914 transgender or nonbinary youth, aged 13–24 years, of whom 14% were receiving GAHT, demonstrated that such treatment was associated with lower odds of recent depression and serious consideration of suicide compared to those who wanted such care but did not receive it.”
But a just-published study found contrariwise to what you stated. Here is an excerpt from the Finnish study published in the BMJ linked below (note that "GR" abbreviates "medical gender reassignment"):
Most importantly, when psychiatric treatment needs, sex, birth year and differences in follow-up times were accounted for, the suicide mortality of both those who proceeded and did not proceed to GR did not statistically significantly differ from that of controls. This does not support the claims5 6 that GR is necessary in order to prevent suicide. GR has also not been shown to reduce even suicidal ideation7 8, and suicidal ideation is not equal to actual suicide risk.29
Background All-cause and suicide mortalities of gender-referred adolescents compared with matched controls have not been studied, and particularly the role of psychiatric morbidity in mortality is unknown. Objective To examin...
I would be shocked if many trans youth don’t deeply regret the decisions so blindly approved by today’s therapeutic community. This just seems so insanely poorly considered and poorly understood to irrevocably alter the human body after, what?, 12 months of adolescent gender questioning? Like, wtf? I say this as an AOC-supporting, Biden-voting mostly woke liberal. This is just insane.
Sorry, but if you wish to make the comparison, the burden is entirely upon you to demonstrate:
1) That these two things are essentially similar in all relevant ways
and
2) That there is a compelling reason to shift the discussion to looking at this other thing rather than directly addressing the point at hand.
Then I discuss the point at hand.
There are many trans youths who seriously fear that their body develops in the "wrong" way. This causes anxiety, depression and suicidal thoughts.
There is medicine that pauses this process so that they can have time to sort the issues and figure out if they want more permanent change.
About half of the country wants this medicine to be banned so that more trans teens would become depressed and commit suicide. They believe it's extremely important that other people follow THEIR moral values, even if that means more people kill themselves. And the worst part is that they are pushing this agenda by claiming they are "protecting the children."
That's like Putin saying he is "protecting" the Ukrainians from Nazis.
The reason the transgender suicide rate is so high because it's a mental illness
There are many trans youths who seriously fear that their body develops in the "wrong" way. This causes anxiety, depression and suicidal thoughts.
There is medicine that pauses this process so that they can have time to sort the issues and figure out if they want more permanent change.
About half of the country wants this medicine to be banned so that more trans teens would become depressed and commit suicide. They believe it's extremely important that other people follow THEIR moral values, even if that means more people kill themselves. And the worst part is that they are pushing this agenda by claiming they are "protecting the children."
That's like Putin saying he is "protecting" the Ukrainians from Nazis.
The reason the transgender suicide rate is so high because it's a mental illness
100%
And when exactly was the turning point in American society when this notion was suddenly rejected and embraced as normal?
That’s completely false. You won’t find any such law and even with parental consent, 12 or 13 year olds, are not receiving gender affirming surgery. You’re just repeating far right claims without doing any of your own research.
Here's the WPATH report. Read it for yourself, then come back and tell everybody that none of this is happening.
There is one reference to surgery on minors on pages 73-74. There is an anonymous inquiry from a doctor who had never performed vaginoplasty on minors about a 14 yr old trans youth. Two doctors are responding to this inquiry. Although they have done some vaginoplasty on 16-17 yr old in the past, and they agree that the age limit of 18 is somewhat arbitrary, they both recommend this anonymous doctor to proceed with caution, and advise against surgery on anyone younger than 16.
I don't know what the anonymous doctor ended up doing.
There are many trans youths who seriously fear that their body develops in the "wrong" way. This causes anxiety, depression and suicidal thoughts.
There is medicine that pauses this process so that they can have time to sort the issues and figure out if they want more permanent change.
About half of the country wants this medicine to be banned so that more trans teens would become depressed and commit suicide. They believe it's extremely important that other people follow THEIR moral values, even if that means more people kill themselves. And the worst part is that they are pushing this agenda by claiming they are "protecting the children."
That's like Putin saying he is "protecting" the Ukrainians from Nazis.
The reason the transgender suicide rate is so high because it's a mental illness
You need to stop referring to it as a mental illness,
As per the American Psychiatric Association: "Diverse gender expressions, much like diverse gender identities, are not indications of a mental disorder."
You are part of the problem by misrepresenting transgenderism and are harming the ability for them to adjust and exist.
To Diggity: You could paste in a hundred other short-term fundamentally flawed 'studies' that may help convince you, but do nothing to convince me, especially when their 'evidence' is proven completely false by better designed, more thorough and longer term studies. The very first study you posted had a 12 month(!) follow up and even then, only 62% of them actually completed the study! Do you suppose that 38% of the participants were too swept up in gender euphoria to complete a 12 month study? Or are the results meaningless because 4 out of 10 participants self-selected out because the intervention either didn't work, or actually harmed them? Paste away, but the massive hurdle you cannot overcome is that I'll never see the side that is setting up children for sterilisation and castration as 'the good guys'.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
This is so. When I first entered the work force, being trans was something that could cost one a job. Some trans people had to use the courts in order to maintain employment and faced costly legal battles not at all related to workforce performance.
Now, we've flipped it 180 - being trans makes it EASIER to obtain employment, get promotions, etc. A trans individual will get hired over one who maintains their birth gender in most cases if they have equal qualificiations. In the case of M to F, its much easier to have higher qualifications for the first job - sport is now a cakewalk for you, performing at the level of an average female is easy for most mtof and most men. Instead of having to bust your butt for years for a spot on an ncaa team, you just show up to practice most days. If you wanted to do something else like starcraft or chess, you'd play at the level expected of a male but have competition level of women.
I'd accept this premise if trans people stop trying to go stealth.
A teenager in CT was outed just a few weeks ago by rightwing activists. If being trans makes life easier, why did her family try so hard to hide her biological sex? That does not make sense to me. Another teen lost her scholarship offer from a P5 school once she was doxed. Yeah, it's easier for them, right?
This is what trans teens are actually going through. They cannot even post their photos with friends because then their friends could become targets of hate.
I have to be careful what I post… if I post pictures of my friends there’s a chance that they become a target of hate. If I post something related to my school, that becomes a target of hate. If I post anything at all, the comments and DMs start since I’m a target.
Some people say that gender dysphoria by definition is a mental illness. In that the patient feels their mind or very being does not match their physical body. therefore it’s a form of illness. This does not mean that they are dangerous, sexually deviant, lower IQ, unprincipled, amoral, etc. What the scientific/healthcare community does know is, transitioning often helps relieve tremendously adverse symptoms. To the point where transitioning has probably saved many young people’s lives. All at no cost to the people on this board who hate the idea.
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