How do you explain a 10.8 seconds better Mile PB for Ingebrigtsen compared to Elliott? Shoes and tracks as well as training have had almost no improvement during the last 65 years. Was he running downhill the full Mile?
The statement that shoes (and tracks and training) "had almost no improvement during the last 65 years" is so ludicrous that it automatically invalidates whatever else you can say.
However, even if they were the same (which they clearly aren't) do you know what else improved in the past 65 years? Doping.
For sure the statement is ludicrous - it's just stretching just a little bit what Dumbstrong has written many times. That's why he is so quiet about it.
So you think Ingebrigtsen is a doper? What about Nuguse? Kerr? Wightman? Fisher? St. Pierre?
You are wrong again. Elliott never lost a mile in his senior career. Jakob has often been beaten and in particular been beaten 3 times for world titles. He has never won a WC title in his specialty event. Elliott never lost a championship race or any race over the 1500/mile in his senior career. He held the wr's in those events - and by an unprecedented margin. Jakob does not hold the world mark in either event - which is supposed to be his best event.
The rest of your comment is as usual irrelevant flannel. You simply do not understand what the best runner in any given event is. Bolt or Rudisha could tell you. If you aren't the best at any event you cannot be the "Greatest Of All Time".
I'm not wrong. Since you are not able to read and to understand what was written, any discussion with you is worthless. Elliott has lost as a junior, he was not unbeaten. As a senior he has won all of his 1500m/Mile races during his very short career.
1500m is not Ingebrigtsens event. But that's completely irrelevant. Ingebrigtsen is not the best 1500m runner in history. Ingebrigtsen is not the best 5000m runner in history. Nobody has said this and nobody - as far as I know - argues for this.
The point was: he has the best cv in distance running for any 22 years old. Do you understand now? It was explained now at least five times to you - a number probably way too low for you to understand.
You claimed his cv at his age is behind Elliott's at the same age. You can argue for this - when doing it while ignoring again and again what Ingebrigtsen has achieved, you just tell the forum so much about yourself. Just continue.
For me, Ingebrigtsen has the better cv at age 22 tan Elliott - but I can see that some might argue for Elliott.
How do you explain a 10.8 seconds better Mile PB for Ingebrigtsen compared to Elliott? Shoes and tracks as well as training have had almost no improvement during the last 65 years. Was he running downhill the full Mile?
I said we are talking about his senior career, in which he never lost at his main distance, the 1500/mile. He scarcely competed as a junior, taking the sport up in his later teens. No md champion has been undefeated in their senior career. Jakob can never match that. Furthermore at 22 Elliott held the world records in his distance, which Jakob never has. He is therefore better at Jakob's specialty distance at the same age. So Jakob cannot be the better runner at the same age. You really are a stupid ****.
This post was edited 37 seconds after it was posted.
The statement that shoes (and tracks and training) "had almost no improvement during the last 65 years" is so ludicrous that it automatically invalidates whatever else you can say.
However, even if they were the same (which they clearly aren't) do you know what else improved in the past 65 years? Doping.
For sure the statement is ludicrous - it's just stretching just a little bit what Dumbstrong has written many times. That's why he is so quiet about it.
So you think Ingebrigtsen is a doper? What about Nuguse? Kerr? Wightman? Fisher? St. Pierre?
I have shown your arguments about Jakob's GOAT claim to be rubbish. I am not going to move on to the subject of doping (Jakob already has, as we see in another thread) with one as clueless about these things as you demonstrate yet again.
I'm not wrong. Since you are not able to read and to understand what was written, any discussion with you is worthless. Elliott has lost as a junior, he was not unbeaten. As a senior he has won all of his 1500m/Mile races during his very short career.
1500m is not Ingebrigtsens event. But that's completely irrelevant. Ingebrigtsen is not the best 1500m runner in history. Ingebrigtsen is not the best 5000m runner in history. Nobody has said this and nobody - as far as I know - argues for this.
The point was: he has the best cv in distance running for any 22 years old. Do you understand now? It was explained now at least five times to you - a number probably way too low for you to understand.
You claimed his cv at his age is behind Elliott's at the same age. You can argue for this - when doing it while ignoring again and again what Ingebrigtsen has achieved, you just tell the forum so much about yourself. Just continue.
For me, Ingebrigtsen has the better cv at age 22 tan Elliott - but I can see that some might argue for Elliott.
How do you explain a 10.8 seconds better Mile PB for Ingebrigtsen compared to Elliott? Shoes and tracks as well as training have had almost no improvement during the last 65 years. Was he running downhill the full Mile?
I said we are talking about his senior career, in which he never lost at his main distance, the 1500/mile. He scarcely competed as a junior, taking the sport up in his later teens. No md champion has been undefeated in their senior career. Jakob can never match that. Furthermore at 22 Elliott held the world records in his distance, which Jakob never has. He is therefore better at Jakob's specialty distance at the same age. So Jakob cannot be the better runner at the same age. You really are a stupid ****.
You said Elliott is unbeaten in the 1500m/Mile - you just added the senior later. He was not unbeaten, as I said.
Saying the same again and again and again.
Changing the subject again and again.
For sure Ingebrigtsen can have the better cv at age 22 than Elliott even without a WR over the 1500m. When you ignore his global (did you get this now?) Gold medals, his WRs, his 16 European golds, his unique string of PBs - than you still can stick to your claim.
Objectively it's close, with - for me - the better arguments for Ingebrigtsen.
How do you explain a 10.8 seconds better Mile PB for Ingebrigtsen?
For sure the statement is ludicrous - it's just stretching just a little bit what Dumbstrong has written many times. That's why he is so quiet about it.
So you think Ingebrigtsen is a doper? What about Nuguse? Kerr? Wightman? Fisher? St. Pierre?
I have shown your arguments about Jakob's GOAT claim to be rubbish. I am not going to move on to the subject of doping (Jakob already has, as we see in another thread) with one as clueless about these things as you demonstrate yet again.
Nobody ever has said Ingebrigtsen is the GOAT in distance running. It's his goal to become this in the future. Do you understand now?
I said we are talking about his senior career, in which he never lost at his main distance, the 1500/mile. He scarcely competed as a junior, taking the sport up in his later teens. No md champion has been undefeated in their senior career. Jakob can never match that. Furthermore at 22 Elliott held the world records in his distance, which Jakob never has. He is therefore better at Jakob's specialty distance at the same age. So Jakob cannot be the better runner at the same age. You really are a stupid ****.
You said Elliott is unbeaten in the 1500m/Mile - you just added the senior later. He was not unbeaten, as I said.
Saying the same again and again and again.
Changing the subject again and again.
For sure Ingebrigtsen can have the better cv at age 22 than Elliott even without a WR over the 1500m. When you ignore his global (did you get this now?) Gold medals, his WRs, his 16 European golds, his unique string of PBs - than you still can stick to your claim.
Objectively it's close, with - for me - the better arguments for Ingebrigtsen.
How do you explain a 10.8 seconds better Mile PB for Ingebrigtsen?
I didn't add it later. You can't read. But no one who knows the sport would think a top athlete's junior years are part of their "career" - particularly an amateur who started at 17. It is your usual stupid piffling point that evades the fact that Elliott never lost over his distance while Jakob has - often - and in key championship finals.
Jakob competing over a range of distances doesn't make him a better runner than Elliott was. Elliott - like Rudisha - completely dominated his events, as great specialists do. Jakob is nowhere near that in any of the events he competes in.
To compare times in vastly different eras without taking into account the difference in tracks, shoes, training, amateur v professional (and doping - there was none in md in Elliott's era) is ridiculous.
Jakob is a remarkably versatile runner but he isn't the best at anything in the way Elliott was (or Snell, Coe or El G), which includes Jakob's specialty of the 1500(mile).
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
I have shown your arguments about Jakob's GOAT claim to be rubbish. I am not going to move on to the subject of doping (Jakob already has, as we see in another thread) with one as clueless about these things as you demonstrate yet again.
Nobody ever has said Ingebrigtsen is the GOAT in distance running. It's his goal to become this in the future. Do you understand now?
The claim I responded to was that Jakob is better at 22 than anyone was. I have argued that Elliott was better than Jakob has so far shown in Jakob's specialty at the same age. Consequently, Elliott remains further ahead in consideration for the md GOAT than Jakob. But then, so do Snell, Coe and El G.
This post was edited 45 seconds after it was posted.
You said Elliott is unbeaten in the 1500m/Mile - you just added the senior later. He was not unbeaten, as I said.
Saying the same again and again and again.
Changing the subject again and again.
For sure Ingebrigtsen can have the better cv at age 22 than Elliott even without a WR over the 1500m. When you ignore his global (did you get this now?) Gold medals, his WRs, his 16 European golds, his unique string of PBs - than you still can stick to your claim.
Objectively it's close, with - for me - the better arguments for Ingebrigtsen.
How do you explain a 10.8 seconds better Mile PB for Ingebrigtsen?
I didn't add it later. You can't read. But no one who knows the sport would think a top athlete's junior years are part of their "career" - particularly an amateur who started at 17. It is your usual stupid piffling point that evades the fact that Elliott never lost over his distance while Jakob has - often - and in key championship finals.
Jakob competing over a range of distances doesn't make him a better runner than Elliott was. Elliott - like Rudisha - completely dominated his events, as great specialists do. Jakob is nowhere near that in any of the events he competes in.
To compare times in vastly different eras without taking into account the difference in tracks, shoes, training, amateur v professional (and doping - there was none in md in Elliott's era) is ridiculous.
Jakob is a remarkably versatile runner but he isn't the best at anything in the way Elliott was (or Snell, Coe or El G), which includes Jakob's specialty of the 1500(mile).
You did add "senior" later, a fact.
It's almost completely irrelevant for ranking Elliott's career. I just clarified the wrong statement that he was unbeaten in the 1500m/Mile. He wasn't. He lost as a junior - again irrelevant for the subject. Just the correct fact (I know you have no interest in facts).
I don't compare times of different eras without taking into account the big improvements of tracks and so on. You have done this dozens of times in this forum, You often have claimed there was just very little improvement in tracks, shoes, training over the last five decades. But since Elliott there was? OK.
So, what's your explanation for Ingebrigtsen's 10.8 seconds better Mile PB? How much is because of shoes and tracks? You think he is a doper? What benefit does he get out of it? Is he better trained than Elliott?
Nobody ever has said Ingebrigtsen is the GOAT in distance running. It's his goal to become this in the future. Do you understand now?
The claim I responded to was that Jakob is better at 22 than anyone was. I have argued that Elliott was better than Jakob has so far shown in Jakob's specialty at the same age. Consequently, Elliott remains further ahead in consideration for the md GOAT than Jakob. But then, so do Snell, Coe and El G.
No, your respond to the statement (the poster even questioned it) that Ingebrigtsen has the best cv at age 22 was that Elliott's cv is better. You argued with his achievements from 800m to the Mile.
It was not about GOAT. It was not about GOAT in the 1500m. It was not about best at age 22 over 1500m.
It was about best at age 22 from 1500m to 5000m.
For me that's clearly Ingebrigtsen.
If we go for all of distance running, Elliott is a candidate. Also others like Bayi (1500m WR at age 20), Ryun (880y, 1500m, Mile WR before age 20), Gebrselassie (WR 2 Miles, 5000m, 10000m, 2 times World Champ 10000m) or Bekele (WR 5000m, 10000m, World + Olympic Champ 10000m).
Claiming that the best runner is someone who only excels at one event is silly. The best miler is the best at that one event, the best 5k runner is the best 5k runner
To be the best runner you have to excel at a wide variety of distances. How can you make the claim to be the best runner if you only run the mile and yet another person who can put up elite times from the mile to the marathon can run within seconds of their PB in an event they don't specialize in?
Claiming that the best runner is someone who only excels at one event is silly. The best miler is the best at that one event, the best 5k runner is the best 5k runner
To be the best runner you have to excel at a wide variety of distances. How can you make the claim to be the best runner if you only run the mile and yet another person who can put up elite times from the mile to the marathon can run within seconds of their PB in an event they don't specialize in?
You can't be the best runner if you aren't the best at any one event. There is always someone better at any event you run. All that you describe is a runner with the best range. But that counts for less than being the best at at least one championship distance.
Bolt did not need to run the 400m to be the best ever sprinter; Rudisha didn't need to run the 400m or the mile to be the best ever 800 runner; El G holds the wr's for the 1500/mile (and did hold 2000m) and was Olympic champion over the 1500 (and 5000) and WC over the 1500. To have been arguably one of the best ever at his main distance didn't - and doesn't - require he excel at any other. A runner who excels at a range of events but isn't the best at any is always behind those who do - either literally or as they are measured historically. They haven't achieved what the best specialist achieves. To be the best - at anything - requires being a specialist.
Nobody ever has said Ingebrigtsen is the GOAT in distance running. It's his goal to become this in the future. Do you understand now?
The claim I responded to was that Jakob is better at 22 than anyone was. I have argued that Elliott was better than Jakob has so far shown in Jakob's specialty at the same age. Consequently, Elliott remains further ahead in consideration for the md GOAT than Jakob. But then, so do Snell, Coe and El G.
Armstrong! Control yourself!
You didn´t read carefully what you responded to. I will document that in my next post.
Will you come back and admit you was wrong in all your posts since page 6 where you responded without realizing what my opinion was?
The claim I responded to was that Jakob is better at 22 than anyone was. I have argued that Elliott was better than Jakob has so far shown in Jakob's specialty at the same age. Consequently, Elliott remains further ahead in consideration for the md GOAT than Jakob. But then, so do Snell, Coe and El G.
No, your respond to the statement (the poster even questioned it) that Ingebrigtsen has the best cv at age 22 was that Elliott's cv is better. You argued with his achievements from 800m to the Mile.
It was not about GOAT. It was not about GOAT in the 1500m. It was not about best at age 22 over 1500m.
It was about best at age 22 from 1500m to 5000m.
For me that's clearly Ingebrigtsen.
If we go for all of distance running, Elliott is a candidate. Also others like Bayi (1500m WR at age 20), Ryun (880y, 1500m, Mile WR before age 20), Gebrselassie (WR 2 Miles, 5000m, 10000m, 2 times World Champ 10000m) or Bekele (WR 5000m, 10000m, World + Olympic Champ 10000m).
It wasn't about the best from 1500-5k; you have arbitrarily selected those distances. Jakob didn't. He said he wishes to be the GOAT. He will never be the GOAT until he surpasses Elliott, Snell, Coe and El G. He won't.
The claim I responded to was that Jakob is better at 22 than anyone was. I have argued that Elliott was better than Jakob has so far shown in Jakob's specialty at the same age. Consequently, Elliott remains further ahead in consideration for the md GOAT than Jakob. But then, so do Snell, Coe and El G.
Armstrong! Control yourself!
You didn´t read carefully what you responded to. I will document that in my next post.
Will you come back and admit you was wrong in all your posts since page 6 where you responded without realizing what my opinion was?
I responded to the claim that no one had a better cv at 22. That is why I raised the example of Elliott. I don't care what the rest of your opinion was - you made an assertion of fact that I disagreed with.
I agree that Jakob can´t be crowned as the Goat yet. But that would also almost be impossible with the number of medals the likes of Gebrselassie, Bekele, Mo Farah and El-G collected over MANY years.
He is, however, as far as I can see the most succesful 22 years old male 1500m to 5000m runner ever.
None of the above mentioned runners had 3 golds and 3 silver (inclusive one indoor) in the Olympics and WCs at his age. Neither had any of the greats far back, Nurmi, Zatopek, Virén a better CV at the age of 22.
Elliott had a better cv at age 22. Olympic 1500m champion by one of the largest margins ever and breaking his own wr in the same race. Mile world record holder, while taking almost 3 seconds off the previous record. Empire Games (the next biggest global competition after the Olympics in that era) champion over the 880y and mile in '58. Finally - unbeaten over the mile and 1500 in his career. No one can match the last achievement. That includes Jakob.
Above is the proof that Armstrong doesn´t read carefully what he is responding to.
Herb Elliott was a great athlete but of course he will never qualify to be the best ever from 1500m to 5000m at the age of 22.
Armstrong is blinded from hos obsession with the runners from the 1950s and 1960s and continues with his nonsense on this thread instead of going back to page 6 to see what he really commented on.
When I was in highschool many years ago ( I am possibly at the same age or older than Armstrong) is was the student´s biggest fear "to misunderstand the subject" when at the exam.
You wouldn´t pass if you made that mistake.
Here some posters have tried to explain that he isn´t adressing the statements in the post he is commenting on but he just continues stubbornly without bothering to check if he might have made a mistake.
I didn't add it later. You can't read. But no one who knows the sport would think a top athlete's junior years are part of their "career" - particularly an amateur who started at 17. It is your usual stupid piffling point that evades the fact that Elliott never lost over his distance while Jakob has - often - and in key championship finals.
Jakob competing over a range of distances doesn't make him a better runner than Elliott was. Elliott - like Rudisha - completely dominated his events, as great specialists do. Jakob is nowhere near that in any of the events he competes in.
To compare times in vastly different eras without taking into account the difference in tracks, shoes, training, amateur v professional (and doping - there was none in md in Elliott's era) is ridiculous.
Jakob is a remarkably versatile runner but he isn't the best at anything in the way Elliott was (or Snell, Coe or El G), which includes Jakob's specialty of the 1500(mile).
You did add "senior" later, a fact.
It's almost completely irrelevant for ranking Elliott's career. I just clarified the wrong statement that he was unbeaten in the 1500m/Mile. He wasn't. He lost as a junior - again irrelevant for the subject. Just the correct fact (I know you have no interest in facts).
I don't compare times of different eras without taking into account the big improvements of tracks and so on. You have done this dozens of times in this forum, You often have claimed there was just very little improvement in tracks, shoes, training over the last five decades. But since Elliott there was? OK.
So, what's your explanation for Ingebrigtsen's 10.8 seconds better Mile PB? How much is because of shoes and tracks? You think he is a doper? What benefit does he get out of it? Is he better trained than Elliott?
I only made the point that Elliott was undefeated in his senior career because you kept insisting he had been beaten. You then tried to defend this fallacious claim by adding that it was as a junior. That is an irrelevant and typically stupid observation. It in no way reduces Elliott's unique achievement or gets around the stark fact that Jakob can now NEVER match that. You haven't a clue what you are talking about so I really have no interest in debating anything else you say. It is all nonsense.
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