Runners would finish a half marathon and head to the nearest pub for greasy food and a few pints. Elite athletes don't do that anymore. It wouldn't be better nutrition that would make Ovett run 3:20 but maybe if his ceiling was 3:29, better nutrition might help him enough in training to allow him to go 3:28
This is what I remember. You trained hard, you ate hard and some drank hard. Yes, there was protein powder and stuff... but nobody counted calories. Nobody ate like birds... except maybe Coe.
I think most runners of that era... if they were running today would be a K or two lighter. And the other thing I notice about today's guys. They are trained in their core a lot more than the guys back then. You see more extremely lean guys with abs showing now. Back then you didn't.
The one thing about all three of those Brits though. If they had been raised in the states... They might not have ever seen the long side of 400 meters. Coaches wouldn't move up guys who were that fast in the 400 to the middle distances. Certainly not past the 800 meters anyway.
The best runners since Elliott have had the same physiques as the best today. Do you think Keino was any different from any other Kenyan today?
Tracks are faster. Gear is better. Shoes are way better. So to me it's not a stretch to think Ovett is worth a second overall on that basis, which puts him at 3:29 high.
It doesn’t matter if fking El G disagrees with him, the shoes are not worth 2 seconds in a 1500. Not even close.
Add 2 seconds to all the times since 2019 and then compare them with previous years and you’ll see how dumb this is. From 2014-18, 3:30 was broken 21 times by 11 different athletes, but in the last 5 years it has only been broken twice by one guy… Yeah, ok lol
At least five of those 11 have been either suspended, involved in doping controversy, or had a training partner suspended.
Perhaps more importantly, only Kiprop, busted for EPO, and Kiplagat ran under 3:30 outside of Monaco - once each The 1500m has only been run twice at Monaco since 2019. One of those occasions Tim intentionally slowed it down, and in the other Jakob was sick (still ran 3:28).
In 2014 - 2018 3:30 was broken twice by two athletes outside Monaco. In 2019 - 2023, despite little racing in 2021, 3:30 was broken 31 times outside Monaco, by 12 different athletes.
Your last sentence suggests the reason is probably better doping.
If that's the argument then everybody who runs a faster last lap could have run faster. So if Cram could have run faster so could just about everyone else. But he didn't and neither did they.
A last lap at 3:33.95 Mile pace is a clear indication that Cram on this day WAS capable to run faster, How much faster? A few tenths I think.
I ran on 1980s cinder and new all weather tracks (hs pr was on a cinder track) but there was a significant difference between them. Even in spikes you'd slide backwards a bit with each step on the cinder track. I'm basing the difference in all weather tracks on the fact that tests for bounce on all weather tracks have a set maximum spring that hasn't changed since then.
3:44-45 is what Cram estimates and it's accurate. 3:44 is 56s 440y pace. If he ran 2:53 for 1320y, then he was running just 57.67 per 440y to that point and it was very, very easy for him, given nearly a 5 second pickup on the last. A second faster each of the first three laps and he'd have been at 2:50, needing just a 55 to run 3:45. He'd likely have been cruising behind El G or Ingebrigtsen in their 3:43 miles.
If that's the argument then everybody who runs a faster last lap could have run faster. So if Cram could have run faster so could just about everyone else. But he didn't and neither did they.
A last lap at 3:33.95 Mile pace is a clear indication that Cram on this day WAS capable to run faster, How much faster? A few tenths I think.
3:44-45 is what Cram estimates and it's accurate. 3:44 is 56s 440y pace. If he ran 2:53 for 1320y, then he was running just 57.67 per 440y to that point and it was very, very easy for him, given nearly a 5 second pickup on the last. A second faster each of the first three laps and he'd have been at 2:50, needing just a 55 to run 3:45. He'd likely have been cruising behind El G or Ingebrigtsen in their 3:43 miles.
It sounds so easy the way you describe it. But to carve 2-3 seconds off his best is a huge margin. I don't think so. Not without what El G and Morcelli were on.
3:44-45 is what Cram estimates and it's accurate. 3:44 is 56s 440y pace. If he ran 2:53 for 1320y, then he was running just 57.67 per 440y to that point and it was very, very easy for him, given nearly a 5 second pickup on the last. A second faster each of the first three laps and he'd have been at 2:50, needing just a 55 to run 3:45. He'd likely have been cruising behind El G or Ingebrigtsen in their 3:43 miles.
It sounds so easy the way you describe it. But to carve 2-3 seconds off his best is a huge margin. I don't think so. Not without what El G and Morcelli were on.
It makes sense. If I run PR pace for the mile I won't have much of a kick in the end. If I run 2 seconds slower per lap I can easily kick hard in the last 150m.
3:44-45 is what Cram estimates and it's accurate. 3:44 is 56s 440y pace. If he ran 2:53 for 1320y, then he was running just 57.67 per 440y to that point and it was very, very easy for him, given nearly a 5 second pickup on the last. A second faster each of the first three laps and he'd have been at 2:50, needing just a 55 to run 3:45. He'd likely have been cruising behind El G or Ingebrigtsen in their 3:43 miles.
I pretty much agree with you here. But this also applies to Ovett (unreleased capacity) and many more (Mo Farah, El Guerrouj in the 5k, Jakob in the 3 and 5k). F.ex Ovett -what could he have done in an all out 3000m and in the 5000m (without his respiratory problems and injuries and lack of time focus)..? Compare him with Moorcroft’s 13.00.41 -who saw that coming (with a 13.20 life time second best)!? -I was as stunned as everybody else on the tribune in Oslo…
But I also agree with Armstronglivs: You have to Do it! -There’s a lot of athletes we could debate endlessly, but the debate would be so much easier if only the athletes got their potential out. -This is the main reason why I love time trails, and even hope on good weather conditions and fast pace in the championships. And athletes who dare do something unexpected, like Hassan and Ingebrigtsen and Kipyegon.
He ran his world record when past his best due to the railing injury in 81. He was unlucky because it was not a running injury which really is not that great an excuse to me.
He never had quite the same kick after that even though it was still good. He did not win another middle distance medal. He must have been capable of sub 3:30 during his peak years and with todays tracks shoes would be still faster. However his main attribute was his devastating kick much better then Wightman or Kerr who both beat Inger
We are debating how many angels can dance on a pin in these threads. I subscribe to the view that the best in any era, given the same conditions and opportunities, would be close to the top in any other era. That would certainly be so from Elliott onwards. Ovett today would be as good as anyone else today.
We are debating how many angels can dance on a pin in these threads. I subscribe to the view that the best in any era, given the same conditions and opportunities, would be close to the top in any other era. That would certainly be so from Elliott onwards. Ovett today would be as good as anyone else today.
But Elliott and Ovett weren't doping and today's top athletes are? That makes no sense.
We are debating how many angels can dance on a pin in these threads. I subscribe to the view that the best in any era, given the same conditions and opportunities, would be close to the top in any other era. That would certainly be so from Elliott onwards. Ovett today would be as good as anyone else today.
But Elliott and Ovett weren't doping and today's top athletes are? That makes no sense.
It is one of the reasons their performances aren't comparable to today's. Doping has grown in the sport; it wasn't always what it has become in recent decades.
How many hours have you coached? Kids with "cramps" stomach ache" and not recovered because they ate like crap run slower. No doubt you can eat much crappier as a young runner, but you need to get adequate protein carbs and at least not make yourself ill. Energy drinks, Son of Baconator...have ruined great runs before my eyes.
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