Wow Princeton resting the A team at the Yale- Harvard-Princeton tri meet really payed off today
rosters for Virginia Invitational announced! / Big race in Virginia, some lingering questions for me
College Running
D1
LRC note. We merged two threads on the race into 1 and combined the titles.
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Kingrey wrote:
I think NC state is a little better at this point. Their top 3 are so dang good plus their 4 and 5 will probably be all Americans. I think NAUs 4,5 and 6 are better than NC State’s. I see Annika Reiss at #4 and Upshaw at # 5. Don’t forget about their super frosh Emma Stutzman?? She ran up there with their top 5 at their home opener.
I agree - if all are running well NC St might put 3 in (top 10) before Stearns, and then have Bush right with NAU's #2. But NAU appears to have a bunch that are close for their 3-7 spots. Can Larkin, Reiss, Smee all be in 20-30 range? Can the rest be in 30s? But even if so, NC St could be 40 points up though 4 runners so just need someone to score in the 50s.
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They finished ahead of 18th ranked Washingon and not far behind 7th ranked Colorado.
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rbtrackfan wrote:
Kingrey wrote:
I think NC state is a little better at this point. Their top 3 are so dang good plus their 4 and 5 will probably be all Americans. I think NAUs 4,5 and 6 are better than NC State’s. I see Annika Reiss at #4 and Upshaw at # 5. Don’t forget about their super frosh Emma Stutzman?? She ran up there with their top 5 at their home opener.
I agree - if all are running well NC St might put 3 in (top 10) before Stearns, and then have Bush right with NAU's #2. But NAU appears to have a bunch that are close for their 3-7 spots. Can Larkin, Reiss, Smee all be in 20-30 range? Can the rest be in 30s? But even if so, NC St could be 40 points up though 4 runners so just need someone to score in the 50s.
Stearns was 4th last year at NCAA and clearly is showing her fitness is there this year. Why would you assume she’d place out of the top 10 this year? What’s scary about how deep the NAU team is they have new faces stepping up like Keira Moore and Maggi Congdon who had really great races today and were right up with Reiss. Smith had a lot of talented options and great depth on this team. Their 5th scorer Kebbe from NCAA is coming off injury and had a rough day today but is always clutch in the end. Plus Smee, Upshaw, Grice,Stutzman, Nikita Moore, Van Pelt. I wouldn’t hand NCST the trophy just yet.
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NAU & NC State women both running at Nuttycombe in a few weeks. should tell us a lot.
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s/o Navy for not getting last lol - only 1 senior in their top 7 and all of them are true sophmores/juniors/seniors w/ not great a great running environment
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Xc. Fan. wrote:
rbtrackfan wrote:
I agree - if all are running well NC St might put 3 in (top 10) before Stearns, and then have Bush right with NAU's #2. But NAU appears to have a bunch that are close for their 3-7 spots. Can Larkin, Reiss, Smee all be in 20-30 range? Can the rest be in 30s? But even if so, NC St could be 40 points up though 4 runners so just need someone to score in the 50s.
Stearns was 4th last year at NCAA and clearly is showing her fitness is there this year. Why would you assume she’d place out of the top 10 this year? What’s scary about how deep the NAU team is they have new faces stepping up like Keira Moore and Maggi Congdon who had really great races today and were right up with Reiss. Smith had a lot of talented options and great depth on this team. Their 5th scorer Kebbe from NCAA is coming off injury and had a rough day today but is always clutch in the end. Plus Smee, Upshaw, Grice,Stutzman, Nikita Moore, Van Pelt. I wouldn’t hand NCST the trophy just yet.
Ha I did not assume tearns would be out of top 10!
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So much depth at NCAA this year. It will be a dog fight for the podium this year. NC St, NAU, BYU look like the most complete teams but Florida and Colorado have paper rosters that are right down scary. Sad one of these teams will go home with no trophy at NCAA.
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rbtrackfan wrote:
Grace Connelly #4 runner for #2 team (Stanford) surprises me...Dudek not in their top 6!
Stanford women, right now, have a clear #1 in Bunnage who was in contention for the win until the final kick . . . and finished 20 secs ahead of Jenks/#2.
However, look at Stanford's depth:
From Jenks/#2 to Parekh/#7, the spread was only 21 secs . . . Stanford's #7 finished 49th overall . . . the next best #7 was NAU at 77th overall.
In fact, Wells/#8 was only 7 secs behind Parekh/#7 and finished 55th overall . . . next best #8 was WA at 89th overall.
Yes, Connelly was a surprise to many Stanford xc fans . . . for even returning to the team for a 5th year (redshirted 2019 xc season) . . . where she is now a grad student.
Only Dadamio/#9 and Archer/#10 ran poorly . . . while Riggs (star frosh) and Suarez (top-7 last two seasons) were not even entered.
Despite the rain and slop and still being early in the season, 3 women broke the old 5k cr of 16:23.1 . . . so this race featured very high-level competition . . . 11 of the 23 women's teams were ranked in the top-29 per the first coaches' poll.
Based upon results this weekend . . . and knowing how good NC State is . . . sure looks like the coaches got it right by voting NC State, NAU and OK State as their clear top-3 . . . but add Stanford into the mix for that 4th podium spot.
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MattHatter wrote:
NAU & NC State women both running at Nuttycombe in a few weeks. should tell us a lot.
If NCSt puts (an unlikely) four in the top 10 at Joe Piane (vs Ala, ND and others), that'll tell us something as well.
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FastMcCabe. wrote:
MattHatter wrote:
NAU & NC State women both running at Nuttycombe in a few weeks. should tell us a lot.
If NCSt puts (an unlikely) four in the top 10 at Joe Piane (vs Ala, ND and others), that'll tell us something as well.
The teams that I have seen showing Joe Piane on their schedule are (some might be Men only and I am sure I missed some):
Alabama
Charlotte
Florida State
High Point
James Madison
Loyola Marymount
Michigan State
Minnesota
Montana State
NC State
Notre Dame
Otterbein
Pittsburgh
Richmond
Santa Clara
St Thomas
Tulane
Washington State
Western Michigan
Wichita State
Youngstown StateIf all of these teams run all of their runners, which is unlikely, I would expect the top 10 would include:
Alabama Doris Lemngole
NC State Katelyn Tuohy
Alabama Hilda Olemomoi
NC State Kelsey Chmiel
Notre Dame Olivia Markezich
NC State Amaris Tyynismaa
NC State Samantha Bush
Florida State Alyson Churchill
Michigan State Katie Osika
Notre Dame Siona ChisholmThe next tier would seem to include:
NC State Grace Hartman
Florida State Elizabeth Funderburk
Florida State Agnes McTighe
NC State Brooke Rauber
Notre Dame Ericka VanderLende
Notre Dame Andrea Markezich
Notre Dame Grace Schager
NC State Gionna Quarzo
Notre Dame Erin StrzeleckiWill Leah Stephens run Unattached again?
To me the key info would be where Churchill, Osika, and the Notre Dame runners place amidst the NC St runners (or vice versa). Churchill and Osika have already raced several times. But will MSU run their top runners in back to back weeks? Osika just placed 12th in Virginia behind NAU's 3rd runner.
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Fan Out West wrote:
rbtrackfan wrote:
Grace Connelly #4 runner for #2 team (Stanford) surprises me...Dudek not in their top 6!
Stanford women, right now, have a clear #1 in Bunnage who was in contention for the win until the final kick . . . and finished 20 secs ahead of Jenks/#2.
However, look at Stanford's depth:
From Jenks/#2 to Parekh/#7, the spread was only 21 secs . . . Stanford's #7 finished 49th overall . . . the next best #7 was NAU at 77th overall.
In fact, Wells/#8 was only 7 secs behind Parekh/#7 and finished 55th overall . . . next best #8 was WA at 89th overall.
Yes, Connelly was a surprise to many Stanford xc fans . . . for even returning to the team for a 5th year (redshirted 2019 xc season) . . . where she is now a grad student.
Only Dadamio/#9 and Archer/#10 ran poorly . . . while Riggs (star frosh) and Suarez (top-7 last two seasons) were not even entered.
Despite the rain and slop and still being early in the season, 3 women broke the old 5k cr of 16:23.1 . . . so this race featured very high-level competition . . . 11 of the 23 women's teams were ranked in the top-29 per the first coaches' poll.
Based upon results this weekend . . . and knowing how good NC State is . . . sure looks like the coaches got it right by voting NC State, NAU and OK State as their clear top-3 . . . but add Stanford into the mix for that 4th podium spot.
The next best #7 behind Stanford was Virginia. Virginia had their #7 in (DeSousa) before NAU’s #7 Fenske.
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7th man wrote:
Fan Out West wrote:
Stanford women, right now, have a clear #1 in Bunnage who was in contention for the win until the final kick . . . and finished 20 secs ahead of Jenks/#2.
However, look at Stanford's depth:
From Jenks/#2 to Parekh/#7, the spread was only 21 secs . . . Stanford's #7 finished 49th overall . . . the next best #7 was NAU at 77th overall.
In fact, Wells/#8 was only 7 secs behind Parekh/#7 and finished 55th overall . . . next best #8 was WA at 89th overall.
Yes, Connelly was a surprise to many Stanford xc fans . . . for even returning to the team for a 5th year (redshirted 2019 xc season) . . . where she is now a grad student.
Only Dadamio/#9 and Archer/#10 ran poorly . . . while Riggs (star frosh) and Suarez (top-7 last two seasons) were not even entered.
Despite the rain and slop and still being early in the season, 3 women broke the old 5k cr of 16:23.1 . . . so this race featured very high-level competition . . . 11 of the 23 women's teams were ranked in the top-29 per the first coaches' poll.
Based upon results this weekend . . . and knowing how good NC State is . . . sure looks like the coaches got it right by voting NC State, NAU and OK State as their clear top-3 . . . but add Stanford into the mix for that 4th podium spot.
The next best #7 behind Stanford was Virginia. Virginia had their #7 in (DeSousa) before NAU’s #7 Fenske.
and NAU sat several who could have been in top 30, maybe top 20, no?
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MattHatter wrote:
NAU & NC State women both running at Nuttycombe in a few weeks. should tell us a lot.
Stearns was 4th last year at NCAA and clearly is showing her fitness is there this year. Why would you assume she’d place out of the top 10 this year? What’s scary about how deep the NAU team is they have new faces stepping up like Keira Moore and Maggi Congdon who had really great races today and were right up with Reiss. Smith had a lot of talented options and great depth on this team. Their 5th scorer Kebbe from NCAA is coming off injury and had a rough day today but is always clutch in the end. Plus Smee, Upshaw, Grice,Stutzman, Nikita Moore, Van Pelt. I wouldn’t hand NCST the trophy just yet.
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jerry5 wrote:
MattHatter wrote:
NAU & NC State women both running at Nuttycombe in a few weeks. should tell us a lot.
Stearns was 4th last year at NCAA and clearly is showing her fitness is there this year. Why would you assume she’d place out of the top 10 this year? What’s scary about how deep the NAU team is they have new faces stepping up like Keira Moore and Maggi Congdon who had really great races today and were right up with Reiss. Smith had a lot of talented options and great depth on this team. Their 5th scorer Kebbe from NCAA is coming off injury and had a rough day today but is always clutch in the end. Plus Smee, Upshaw, Grice,Stutzman, Nikita Moore, Van Pelt. I wouldn’t hand NCST the trophy just yet.
I think the question is if Stearns is enough to make NAU materially different than New Mexico's challenge last year? New Mexico had 5 all-americans and their 5th runner was 40 spots ahead of NC States. But they didn't have enough runners in the top 5/top 10/top 20 range so NC State's lead from the first 3-4 runners killed them.
Stearns is obviously that type of runner but even still she was already behind 2 NC State runners finishing in 4th place. And NC State's top 4 has gotten better this year trading Mareno for Tyynismaa. If NC State puts 4 runners in the top 15/20 the math starts to get pretty hard for NAU unless 2-3 of those runners you mentioned can level up from where they have historically been to a top 20 finisher or NC state's 5th finishes lower than Rauber last year.
That's why most people are talking about Colorado as such a strong challenger if they can stay healthy. Because they do have multiple of those runners that have proven they can finish in the top 5 or 10 at nationals.
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rbtrackfan wrote:
FastMcCabe. wrote:
If NCSt puts (an unlikely) four in the top 10 at Joe Piane (vs Ala, ND and others), that'll tell us something as well.
The teams that I have seen showing Joe Piane on their schedule are (some might be Men only and I am sure I missed some):
Alabama
Charlotte
Florida State
High Point
James Madison
Loyola Marymount
Michigan State
Minnesota
Montana State
NC State
Notre Dame
Otterbein
Pittsburgh
Richmond
Santa Clara
St Thomas
Tulane
Washington State
Western Michigan
Wichita State
Youngstown StateIf all of these teams run all of their runners, which is unlikely, I would expect the top 10 would include:
Alabama Doris Lemngole
NC State Katelyn Tuohy
Alabama Hilda Olemomoi
NC State Kelsey Chmiel
Notre Dame Olivia Markezich
NC State Amaris Tyynismaa
NC State Samantha Bush
Florida State Alyson Churchill
Michigan State Katie Osika
Notre Dame Siona ChisholmThe next tier would seem to include:
NC State Grace Hartman
Florida State Elizabeth Funderburk
Florida State Agnes McTighe
NC State Brooke Rauber
Notre Dame Ericka VanderLende
Notre Dame Andrea Markezich
Notre Dame Grace Schager
NC State Gionna Quarzo
Notre Dame Erin StrzeleckiWill Leah Stephens run Unattached again?
To me the key info would be where Churchill, Osika, and the Notre Dame runners place amidst the NC St runners (or vice versa). Churchill and Osika have already raced several times. But will MSU run their top runners in back to back weeks? Osika just placed 12th in Virginia behind NAU's 3rd runner.
Nice overview and a great opening post for a Joe Piane thread! I probably rate the ND #2--#5 runners slightly higher than you and Tyynismaa's early season sharpness a little lower (and anticipate a Scrimgeour-like performance from someone previously overlooked or underrated) which is why I think NCSt will struggle to put a fourth in the top 10. At the same time, if everyone's firing on the day, the Wolfpack could roll through this field and grab half the top 10 spots.
The probable battle for third btwn Olemomoi/Markezich/Chmiel is too close to call, imo. Should be thrilling.
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