You're constant noise when you post. You accuse over 90% of T&F athletes of p.e.d. use. You state zero facts to support your claims. Your theories are weak. Pick four athletes at the most per year and then make your case.
You sound dumb. You really think all the top guy and girls aren’t on something? You probably were a Lance defender. Probably still are actually.
It's "woke" to call out doping? Not everyone is as happy to celebrate the achievements of dopers as you - whether they are "self-coached or not.
Yes. We get it, you're "woke" to the fact that top athletes are doping, good for you, you're so smart. Most people on this board agree that this performance is probably not clean. But it's irrelevant to the point about him being self-coached, which is actually interesting and unusual.
You're acting like an SJW who needs to inject racism into every tangentially related conversation. You're not smart for pointing it out, you're just derailing the conversation because you have nothing interesting to contribute. It's almost like you just recently realized that top athletes dope and you feel the need to tell everyone about it. Enough.
I don’t think woke means what you think it does. Stop using it. When did he bring up race? Go back to defending your heroes and closing your eyes to the obvious doping.
I have said that any top athlete now could be doping. But with some athletes it's as obvious as a klaxon. Kiptum is such a one. His performances are off the planet and he comes from a sporting culture absolutely rife with doping. It's an easy call.
Thx for being on [ repeating the] record.
Without Super Shoes kept Kiptum would be running 2:03. That is nearly indisputable. You can't ignore that and pretend that some of these unfathomable times are not due to the new shoe tech.
Your "could be doping" makes it sound like you have a convenient benefit of the doubt viewpoint for Jakob. Kind of what I figured [but even more so of course with coevett].
Again, since you clearly believe that
A) all top EastAfrican runners are doping, and
B] that Peds give a huge advantage so that
C] it is impossible that any clean talented athlete could beat a doped talented athlete, and
D] since Jakob regularly makes mincemeat out of all of the best East African 1500 M and 5,000 m runners
Why not be just consistent and clear and just state the following: " I 100% believe Jakob Ingebrigtsen is a cheater.
That would be the only consistent statement to make based on your other beliefs. Putting any wiggle room in there for him would be clearly biased/inconsistent.
Well? [ and this is also adressed to Coevet]
Not all possible dopers present the same case. Kiptum looks as clear-cut an example as I have seen. Others are merely probable or possible.
(I don't agree about the extent of improvement in the shoes).
Without Super Shoes kept Kiptum would be running 2:03. That is nearly indisputable. You can't ignore that and pretend that some of these unfathomable times are not due to the new shoe tech.
Your "could be doping" makes it sound like you have a convenient benefit of the doubt viewpoint for Jakob. Kind of what I figured [but even more so of course with coevett].
Again, since you clearly believe that
A) all top EastAfrican runners are doping, and
B] that Peds give a huge advantage so that
C] it is impossible that any clean talented athlete could beat a doped talented athlete, and
D] since Jakob regularly makes mincemeat out of all of the best East African 1500 M and 5,000 m runners
Why not be just consistent and clear and just state the following: " I 100% believe Jakob Ingebrigtsen is a cheater.
That would be the only consistent statement to make based on your other beliefs. Putting any wiggle room in there for him would be clearly biased/inconsistent.
Well? [ and this is also adressed to Coevet]
Not all possible dopers present the same case. Kiptum looks as clear-cut an example as I have seen. Others are merely probable or possible.
(I don't agree about the extent of improvement in the shoes).
So...
Top East Africans =certainly doping
Top non-East Africans, several of who BEAT or compete right with top East Africans = only possibly doping.
Only a handful of runners have ever gone faster than Grant Fisher in the 10k or Woody Kincaid in the indoor 5k. And I am certain you believe that those "handful of runners" were doping. Yet, you ALSO believe the current shoes are not that much of a boost to times and ALSO believe it's possible Kincaid and Fisher are clean. That's fascinating.
If all of the above is true. If it is possible that clean runners can beat almost all of the super talented, dedicated *doped-to-the-gills* runners, then..... maybe doping is not such an advantage after all.
If you can't recognize the inconsistencies in your viewpoints I think you need to reconsider them.
But who coaches Kiptum if he’s not self-coached. He’s not a Gianni/adidas athlete so Claudio B. doesn’t make much sense. He’s Golazo (Corstjens)/Nike so you could see Gary Lough, Sang or Renato because NN and Golazo seem to be friendly.
This post was edited 16 seconds after it was posted.
You're constant noise when you post. You accuse over 90% of T&F athletes of p.e.d. use. You state zero facts to support your claims. Your theories are weak. Pick four athletes at the most per year and then make your case.
You sound dumb. You really think all the top guy and girls aren’t on something? You probably were a Lance defender. Probably still are actually.
600 yard man thinks all the Brits of the 80's were dirty, but considers Kiptum above suspicion and suggests he takes legal action against us. Compare with :
* S Coe admitted he did not out-train his 400m to 1 mile competitors. * Is there a long history of great athletes on either side of his family? Is there any history of good to great athletes in his family? * So we are down to: S Coe must have trained smarter. Training smarter means superior knowledge of authorized vitamins & supplements. Superior knowledge of dietary needs, a superior knowledge of cross-training and a superior knowledge of the proper balance required for 800m, mileage & track workouts. [I am not concerned about his 1500m/one mile performances.]
Why do Brits rule out the possibility of P.E.D. use? Great Britain has a population close to 70 million. Not all of the pro-Coe types on here can be related to him. On this site, if a U.S. T&F athlete produces suspicious results, posters do not necessarily circle the wagons (some do but only a few deadenders). Look at the Brits on this thread, threatening a law suit. Is that what S Coe wants? Does S Coe want to really be cross-examined under oath?
So Coe was dirty because he didn't have any great athletes in his family history, and therefore he must have trained 'smarter', and it follows that he doped.
Further, anybody who defends Coe must be related to him, and the idea of Coe suing anybody is ridiculous as he wouldn't want to be cross-examined under oath about his lack of having an all-time great runner on his father's side of the family.
i wrote back in 2008 that a bekele could go sub 2 hours. and laid out how to run an artificial 2 hours with the guys that are out there. which they did, mega drafting was the key, plus perfect conditions.
Proof please? What was the name of thread? Did you post under this name? I'd love to see it.
Here are some 2 hour marathon postings going back to 2007.
I can't find the detailed 2 hour race protocol, but the appended idea is below.
TNF NEWS Figo senior member alias to Longjack 58:35 World Half Marathon Record for Samuel Wanjiru 03-17-2007, 09:09 PM pace = per km 2'46"6 10km 27.45 20km 55.30 note, these are not race splits. run solo 85% of the race. that means paced the guy can go close to 58 flat or 27:30ish 10k speed the whole way. and that means that it is humanly possible to run 2 hours flat for the marathon. crazy, huh?
I'm pretty sure I will get to see one in my lifetime now. Granted, Eliud Kipchoge is a once in a generation talent. I wouldn't put it past him to take the wr down to a low sub 2:01 before he's done. However, some of the youn...
Screw that other thread saying Bekele will retire today. It was started before today's race.Today's run was super, super encouraging if you saw it. 2:06:36 for 3rd. The announcers said Bekele hadn't run much more than an hour...
Not all possible dopers present the same case. Kiptum looks as clear-cut an example as I have seen. Others are merely probable or possible.
(I don't agree about the extent of improvement in the shoes).
So...
Top East Africans =certainly doping
Top non-East Africans, several of who BEAT or compete right with top East Africans = only possibly doping.
Only a handful of runners have ever gone faster than Grant Fisher in the 10k or Woody Kincaid in the indoor 5k. And I am certain you believe that those "handful of runners" were doping. Yet, you ALSO believe the current shoes are not that much of a boost to times and ALSO believe it's possible Kincaid and Fisher are clean. That's fascinating.
If all of the above is true. If it is possible that clean runners can beat almost all of the super talented, dedicated *doped-to-the-gills* runners, then..... maybe doping is not such an advantage after all.
If you can't recognize the inconsistencies in your viewpoints I think you need to reconsider them.
You haven't accurately represented my views. But quite simply, whether anyone else is doping - and they are - is absolutely irrelevant to the issue of Kiptum doping. Red herring.
Speculations about Kiptum doped or not is just that, speculations. Now when he is the GOAT he will be watched extra carefully with frequent unanounced tests I guess, anyway he should be .. ..
After Valencia I chat with him and he told he trained alone and is selfcoached. A normal training week looks like ; Tuesdays a track interval, Thursdays and Sundays a long run, Fridays a fast tempo/ Fartlek. The other days just easy distance .....Very simple program like most of the Kenyan elites. What's the difference that makes him run these fantastic race times then? Well, if clean, it is of course exceptionell talent.
Speculations about Kiptum doped or not is just that, speculations. Now when he is the GOAT he will be watched extra carefully with frequent unanounced tests I guess, anyway he should be .. ..
After Valencia I chat with him and he told he trained alone and is selfcoached. A normal training week looks like ; Tuesdays a track interval, Thursdays and Sundays a long run, Fridays a fast tempo/ Fartlek. The other days just easy distance .....Very simple program like most of the Kenyan elites. What's the difference that makes him run these fantastic race times then? Well, if clean, it is of course exceptionell talent.
Top non-East Africans, several of who BEAT or compete right with top East Africans = only possibly doping.
Only a handful of runners have ever gone faster than Grant Fisher in the 10k or Woody Kincaid in the indoor 5k. And I am certain you believe that those "handful of runners" were doping. Yet, you ALSO believe the current shoes are not that much of a boost to times and ALSO believe it's possible Kincaid and Fisher are clean. That's fascinating.
If all of the above is true. If it is possible that clean runners can beat almost all of the super talented, dedicated *doped-to-the-gills* runners, then..... maybe doping is not such an advantage after all.
If you can't recognize the inconsistencies in your viewpoints I think you need to reconsider them.
You haven't accurately represented my views. But quite simply, whether anyone else is doping - and they are - is absolutely irrelevant to the issue of Kiptum doping. Red herring.
I actually think I'm portraying your views pretty well. Correct me where I am wrong!
And.... you've contradicted yourself yet again: you state that- "whether or not other runners are doping is irrelevant to the issue of Kiptum doping. red herring".
BUT... you are partly basing your certitude of Kiptum's doping based on the doping of others, i.e., the Kenyan "culture of doping" and all of the Kenyan busts for PED use. And furthermore possibly giving Jakob a pass because of the lack of doping positives from Norway. So you are exactly doing what you claim would be a poor rationale for deciding whether someone is likely guilty or not. RIGHT?? Right.
Just admit that you have contradicted yourself here.
You haven't accurately represented my views. But quite simply, whether anyone else is doping - and they are - is absolutely irrelevant to the issue of Kiptum doping. Red herring.
I actually think I'm portraying your views pretty well. Correct me where I am wrong!
And.... you've contradicted yourself yet again: you state that- "whether or not other runners are doping is irrelevant to the issue of Kiptum doping. red herring".
BUT... you are partly basing your certitude of Kiptum's doping based on the doping of others, i.e., the Kenyan "culture of doping" and all of the Kenyan busts for PED use. And furthermore possibly giving Jakob a pass because of the lack of doping positives from Norway. So you are exactly doing what you claim would be a poor rationale for deciding whether someone is likely guilty or not. RIGHT?? Right.
Just admit that you have contradicted yourself here.
No, I'm not. But you want me to say that he is no more suspicious than any other top athlete. He is.
You haven't accurately represented my views. But quite simply, whether anyone else is doping - and they are - is absolutely irrelevant to the issue of Kiptum doping. Red herring.
I actually think I'm portraying your views pretty well. Correct me where I am wrong!
And.... you've contradicted yourself yet again: you state that- "whether or not other runners are doping is irrelevant to the issue of Kiptum doping. red herring".
BUT... you are partly basing your certitude of Kiptum's doping based on the doping of others, i.e., the Kenyan "culture of doping" and all of the Kenyan busts for PED use. And furthermore possibly giving Jakob a pass because of the lack of doping positives from Norway. So you are exactly doing what you claim would be a poor rationale for deciding whether someone is likely guilty or not. RIGHT?? Right.
Just admit that you have contradicted yourself here.
He never admits it when he is wrong, and he is often wrong. That's a narcissistic sociopath for you.
I actually think I'm portraying your views pretty well. Correct me where I am wrong!
And.... you've contradicted yourself yet again: you state that- "whether or not other runners are doping is irrelevant to the issue of Kiptum doping. red herring".
BUT... you are partly basing your certitude of Kiptum's doping based on the doping of others, i.e., the Kenyan "culture of doping" and all of the Kenyan busts for PED use. And furthermore possibly giving Jakob a pass because of the lack of doping positives from Norway. So you are exactly doing what you claim would be a poor rationale for deciding whether someone is likely guilty or not. RIGHT?? Right.
Just admit that you have contradicted yourself here.
He never admits it when he is wrong, and he is often wrong. That's a narcissistic sociopath for you.
Simply because you agree with this clod you think that means I am wrong. You, too, are a clod. Kiptum's doping isn't dependent on the fact that many of his fellow Kenyan athletes are doping; it simply makes it more likely. His outlandish performances from nowhere make it a virtual certainty. No Norwegian, British or American athlete currently comes from a culture where doping is clearly the norm - as it is in Kenya. So the sporting milieu they inhabit is not as determinative. Nor are any of those athletes from those countries currently producing performances that defy belief. That is not to say they aren't doping - or can't be - but that the case against them is nowhere near as strong. I don't expect the morons here to understand that, so you and the poster you approve of shouldn't trouble yourselves.