Coe 81 vs Kipketer 97 vs Rudisha 2012 - Who wins in a perfectly paced race?

hahaha, yes :D

13 Aug 1997 Zurich was definitely the pinnacle of the sport. Kipketer running a crazy 1:41.2 off 48 second pace. El G and Cacho running unbelievable 3:28s in the 1500. Geb crushing the 5000m WR with a ridiculous 12:41 and Komen just behind in a mind bending 12:44. There was definitely something in the air that night.

So in other words your Brits were not doing well so the others must have been doping but when your Brits are doing well then nobody is doping or the nonBrits are still doping but not able to keep up?

Yes, Brits ran slower in the EPO era, and ran faster with the introduction of the ABP. Only 1 Kenyan has run faster than Kipketer that night 25 years ago. No Kenyan has run faster than Komen that night. I do find it odd that many here (all the reasonable people) will not hesitate to say that El G, Komen, Geb, Cacho were all doped out of their minds, but will give Kipketer a pass.

I mean seriously, with all the doping busts Kenya has had subsequently, including in middle-distance, can you be freaking confident that when there was no testing for EPO, on the same night that El G, Cacho, Komen, Geb were running ridiculous times with EPO trails coming out their backsides, that Kipketer ran 1:41.2 off a 48 second first lap through natural talent alone?

This is a guy who took 6 years to go from 1:47.0 to sub 1:45.

Some of your Brits ran awfully fast in the blood doping and anabolic steroid era. I suppose it was just a coincidence.

I think we can agree here Coevett: Kipketer's 1:41.24 after a 48.2 is the greatest 800m performance in history.

And of course we can agree that Jakob with his 3:28 and 12:48 is clean even though he is close to the same level now as some of those who you say were drowning in EPO.

Beeing great over 1500 and 5k and just average over 800 since years for Coevett was a clear indication of doping. I have never heard this anymore about JI from Coevett.

Cruz was as fast as Coe, should be included in the field.

Ngeny should be included in this field along with Jauntorena and Ereng as well.

Rudisha, hands down.

I find it interesting that no one has mentioned that Coe himself considers Rudisha to be the greatest 800m runner of all time (he stated this in his own words during an interview after London 2012). Yet some of you are convinced Coe would beat Rudisha? Kipketer is up for discussion however.

Kipketer was very probably doping and he did very little at the Olympics, so if they were testing for EPO at this match race and the stakes were this high, he would lose. The lack of rounds, however, would help him. Cruz would be a contender as well. But Coe did close faster than anyone in history in the 800m, and he would have run sub-1:42 a lot more frequently had he specialized in the 800m, instead of spreading himself out to 1k, 1500, and mile as much as he did. Coe might have been blood doping--given his bout of a disease rarely bad for anyone other than those sharing blood--or using steroids--given that Loughborough was testing steroids on volunteers at that time, but of course there's no proof of his use. Rudisha paced himself to 1:40.91, albeit on a faster track than Firenze 1981, and ran more fast races than anyone, so I give him the crown. Of course, who's to say he was clean either?

I thought we were discussing what they could do at their very best, not their overall competitive record?

I would say in the veins. There was no test for it. But to their undying fans here none of them was using it - even though everybody else they were beating was. Yeah - sure.

Rather like 9.79 in Seoul '88. Oh, wait ..

If he was drowning in EPO he would be running 3.26. it is unprecedented in the history of the sport that the best today are way slower than the best decades ago.

So this means that El G and Lagat - eminently average over 800m - were doping?