Sports Scientist Ross Tucker breaks downs the Shelby Houlihan case for us

I believe what you are writing is factually incorrect.

Yes Jerry sent at least one of his athletes to Dr. Brown (Solinsky right?). So what? Wetmore sent athletes to Dr Brown as well (Jenny Simpson) and I think even Bob Kennedy. Brown was giving lectures at USATF clinics and came recommended by the likes of Dr. Dave Martin. He was well known. I had a superstar recruit at Cornell who had all sorts of problems. I remember saying to him, "If I had unlimited money, I'd send you to Houston to see this famous running doc as no one here can get you well."

What's different is Jerry stopped sending his guys to Brown. Alberto didn't. Teg didn't go to Brown, Ahmed didn't go to Brown, Fisher, etc. They take pride in knowing the training works and that guys who have never been within 300 miles of Dr. Brown have run super fast.

If your boss was world famous and told you about a great doctor he saw, wouldn't you try it out? That's what he did. Then he stopped.

Still waiting guys and gals. I just threw it out there thinking there would be one or two but I guess not. I texted a buddy and he couldn't name any. A free Burrito Track Club tshirt will be sent to the first person who can name a collegian other than Shelby Houlihan who ran 2:01 for 800 and was top 10 at NCAA xc.

Now that doesn't mean she didn't dope. Massively talented people dope (Kiprop).

And yes her improvement I'll admit was more unusual than most. But so what. My brother improved massively at like age 26 but that was directly after going to altitude for the 1st time.

To everyone on here who thinks Shelby is dirty, I'm curious what do you think of Ajee Wilson? I have no idea if she is clean or not. I'm naturally a skeptic of the consensus view. Can someone tell me why she got off - were her levels really low and the isotope's consistent with tainted beef? I've never looked into it.

I sent a follow up question to Ross regarding Wilson and Lawson that we will publish in a few days.

sigh. another multi-page thread on Houlihan.

Shoulda been an open shut case, bing boom--ban, but alas, she is white, american and likable. So. Here we are.

Guys--she cheated. At this point I don't know what to tell you. I am not going to write paragraphs and paragraphs presenting the 380 billion points that she cheated. She just did, and she probably has been for years.

Yes, a lot more runners than Shelby probably cheat. Sifan, Rupp and others probably all cheat. But Shelby ALSO cheated and was caught. No, not all of them do. Yes, clean athletes do exist.

Some more of your white American favorites probably cheat too. Not all of them. But some. Maybe some of them will be caught. And we'll have to do all of this all over again...

Here are some lessons we should learn from the case:

1. It's perfectly possible for likable white American runners to cheat

2. She's not "smarter than this" No one cares that you like her, and just because you like her coach, it doesn't matter if SHE cheated.

3. It's perfectly possible for otherwise good people to cheat. It doesn't make them exempt from a ban. (I'm not saying Shelby's good--idk her. But narcissists aren't the only people who cheat).

4. Just because your mom ran a 2:35 marathon, does not mean you will also run a 2:35 marathon.

5. Just because your mom ran a 2:35 marathon doesn't mean you can win 11 US Titles clean.

Thank you.

I didn't write all of the questions for Ross, but I wrote/contributed to some of them and I wanted to ask him the things I still wasn't clear on coming out of the CAS decision in June. I understood pretty well why CAS decided to ban her. A lot of that evidence is laid out fairly clearly in the CAS decision, particularly McGlone's explanation of how improbable he believes it would be for a boar with sufficient androgen levels to trigger a positive test at Houlihan's level to show up in the food supply.

But there were some things I still wasn't sure about. Ayotte's prominent role in the case, coming on the heels of her mistake in the Lawson case, raised an eyebrow so I wanted to know his thoughts on her as well as the study she cited. And it never made sense to me why the lab didn't do the pharmacokinetics study Houlihan requested, even though it wasn't required (or why she wouldn't do it herself) but now I have a better understanding of that as well.

Also, I read the first piece by Ross, which goes into great detail about most of the arguments Houlihan made in the CAS case and why CAS rejected them. That article already made clear the damning evidence against her (namely that her nandrolone concentrations were relatively high and her carbon isotope readings did not suggest an endogenous source). Should I just ask him about that stuff again to get him to repeat what he already explained in article #1? That doesn't seem like a great use of his time.

Suzy Favor Hamilton ran 1:59 in college and was 2nd at NCAA XC in 1990. You can keep the Burrito Track Club shirt, though, Rojo.

Jess Hull ran 2:03 and was 4th but if you're being picky about the 2:01 idk.

She did not.

Who else is sick and tired of Shelby Houlihan?

From Post #20 in this very thread...

If you're going to try to compare apples to oranges between Houlihan and Lawson/Wilson, you should probably be a bit more informed on what it is you're comparing. Admitting "I've never really looked into it", yet repeatedly bringing up vague commonalities is, as the quoted poster says, lazy, and, in my opinion, irresponsible.

Zeranol was found in Wilson’s case . Commonly used in Agriculture for North American beef farming . Same with the case with Contador in cycling . Easy to trace and easy to find commercial beef farmers who must list this to fda .

Derek Rubis in the replies like

Jerry sent men and women to Brown after he left NOP. You are speculating that he stopped because he didn’t like what Alberto was doing , and presenting it as fact. Also Dr Brown was not on board with NOP until the Gouchers introduced Brown to Alsal.

Has the analytical method that was used to distinguish endogenous from exogenous 19-NA been validated in controlled studies?

Or is this another case of an unvalidated analytical method being used in athletes?

I am turning down the gift but Rojo have you ever heard of Suzy Favor? You might want to take a glance at her collegiate career. She ran 1:59 and certainly was 2nd in Cross Country one year.

Oh sorry I did not see your reply Jon.

Sifan does not cheat and she is smoking hot.

To add, Wilson was tested a week before (negative) and the supplier confirmed they used Zeranol and it was a minuscule amount. She had the receipts and everything added up.

For Lawson, it was far more up-in-the-air but the differences were a) no beef/pork wrong order weirdness b) a very low concentration of the banned substance (19th/22) among positives picked up by the lab c) expert witness calling the mistake that would lead to it showing up as plausible - that is very unlike the pork expert in this case d) no carbon signature evidence that made it murkier. Really the Lawson case is what the Brojos would have you believe Shelby’s is, but it required one piece of human error whereas Shelby required that (wrong order) plus around 20 other things that don’t make any sense (pork kidney/heart not stomach, uncastrated boar not pork, a way higher amount of nandrolone than plausible, a carbon signature that didn’t make sense, and so on)

Oh I forgot about Jess Hull. And for good reason.

Jess Hull ran 2:04.93. Houlihan ran 2:01.92. 3+ seconds in the 800 - that's not much at all in the 800.

Many of the Africans are innocent too, but for many "fans" of the sport, they are the "wrong" color.