okay, I'll say it: can we ban this troll already
okay, I'll say it: can we ban this troll already
mental toughness. wrote:
MeToo! wrote:
Oh. BS. Seidel wouldn't be airing to every newspaper and TV show about her eating disorders if she was so easily embarrassed about how she broke ribs so close to the NYC marathon. The public deserves an explanation for her not believable behaviors.
Let me guess, all those elites you know are part of the Omerta. Did you ever wonder how so many elites are involved in doping conspiracies like BALCO?
No it’s not BS. Leave it up to Letsrun to twist something into something else. She owes nobody nothing.
Yes it is BS. Seidel is a public athlete whose worth is determined by the public believing her performances are clean. She owes the public everything gained.
Are you even old enough to remember BALCO?
popeye doyle wrote:
okay, I'll say it: can we ban this troll already
At least this isn't another covid thread. Has Molly gotten her vaccines?
No she doesn’t owe anyone anything, and yes I’m old enough to know what BALCO is. I’ve been a Letsrun visitor since the beginning in 2000. And you? Go away troll.
mental toughness. wrote:
No she doesn’t owe anyone anything, and yes I’m old enough to know what BALCO is. I’ve been a Letsrun visitor since the beginning in 2000. And you? Go away troll.
Elite athletes are public entertainers, she owes her audience.
If you are indeed old enough to know what BALCO is, then please give a summary of what it is and lessons learned from it. I bet you won't.
when i started coaching i remember somebody saying to me, some of the best coaches have never participated in sport they coach before, that is why they have open eyes and are not just parroting their old coach or some mantra from some superguru.
Coaching is much more that drills or clocking some pace.
As I commented in some other thread, athletes get better just by changing a coach. They get new stimulation with different training, they get new people to talk to etc. Result is sometimes much more depended on anything but the training sets.
MeToo! wrote:Just look at the ridiculously suspicious performance of Seidel at the New York City Marathon smashing the women's course record held by Kara Goucher.
Why is it "ridiculously suspicious" to run a 2:24:42 for 4th place, well out of contention, on a day with perfect weather? Is it because she broke "Kara's American course record," which isn't a thing anyone knew existed until Kara started talking about it? Goucher had a fine career, but I don't think anyone who follows the sport would suggest that she is/was a bigger talent than Seidel.
Your entire narrative hinges on the notion that Seidel was a second tier athlete until she became a marathoner. But she was probably one of the top-5 prospects in U.S. history. Anyway, when I pointed out her NCAA accomplishments, both titles and spectacular times (just a few ticks off the NCAA record, in an unrabbited championship race, in a meet where she doubled and won both events), you said nothing. If one of the best runners in NCAA history is "ridiculously suspicious" for eventually finishing a major marathon two minutes behind the winner, you must believe that nobody who has ever competed in the NCAA has enough talent to be world class. In fact, I'll make it easier: Name a single American female runner in history who, at the age of 22, was clearly better than Seidel. You can't.
This is extremely silly. Anyone who follows Molly on Strava could tell you the secret to her success- extremely high volume achieved by doing almost nothing that looks traditionally "hard". Pretty rare to see her getting above 10k pace and even in her biggest workouts, the total volume of Work is low compared to her weekly volume. Lots and lots of easy running (her peaks involve ~16 hours of running per week), some moderately hard running- a pretty obvious way to conquer a distance that has you running at below 90% of mHR for most of the race.
MeToo! wrote:
SeattleSilver wrote:
Yes, one can run with two broken ribs -- I have done it. It depends on the extent of the break, the location of the breaks and the runner's pain threshold. Molly's career suggests a high pain threshold and focus. She didn't say they were broken and dislocated.
And overcoming the injuries relating to eating disorders doesn't render her immune to other injuries.
And I don't know why you think runners would have some special obligation or tendency to detail how her ribs were broken. Perhaps the story is embarrassing and she would prefer not to say.
Did you also smash the NYC marathon course record with broken ribs like Seidel did? Of course you can try to run but the fact that Seidel so easily broke Goucher's record with broken ribs is extremely suspicious especially when coupled with her not believable McDonald's to marathon story. PEDs speed up recovery.
How supposedly the top woman American marathoner broke her ribs so close to the NYC Marathon and still smashed the record is highly relevant for the public to know for transparency. Refusing to state how something so unbelievable could have happened is like so many past dopers. Did Seidel get into a fight with Sha'Carri and wasn't fast enough to run away?
That is a bootstrap argument. You expect people to take it as gospel that the story is unbelievable, and they argue that more needs to be said for 'transparency'. Leaving aside whether she owes anyone transparency so long as she is passing any doping tests she is called upon to take (I don't think she does), not everyone agrees that the story is unbelievable. People can run with broken ribs, and people with her credentials, motivation and likely pain threshold can do it with cracked ribs. And beating Goucher may not be as difficult as you think if you are a runner of Seidel's apparent caliber.
And if her ribs weren't damaged I'd be disappointed that she lied, but it still wouldn't have anything to do with whether she doped.
800 dude wrote:
MeToo! wrote:Just look at the ridiculously suspicious performance of Seidel at the New York City Marathon smashing the women's course record held by Kara Goucher.
Why is it "ridiculously suspicious" to run a 2:24:42 for 4th place, well out of contention, on a day with perfect weather? Is it because she broke "Kara's American course record," which isn't a thing anyone knew existed until Kara started talking about it? Goucher had a fine career, but I don't think anyone who follows the sport would suggest that she is/was a bigger talent than Seidel.
Your entire narrative hinges on the notion that Seidel was a second tier athlete until she became a marathoner. But she was probably one of the top-5 prospects in U.S. history. Anyway, when I pointed out her NCAA accomplishments, both titles and spectacular times (just a few ticks off the NCAA record, in an unrabbited championship race, in a meet where she doubled and won both events), you said nothing. If one of the best runners in NCAA history is "ridiculously suspicious" for eventually finishing a major marathon two minutes behind the winner, you must believe that nobody who has ever competed in the NCAA has enough talent to be world class. In fact, I'll make it easier: Name a single American female runner in history who, at the age of 22, was clearly better than Seidel. You can't.
As I already told the other posters, the best 5-15k PR Seidel ever had previous to 2019 converts to an optimal conditions marathon time of 2:30+. The fact that she was so injured and out of shape after that as to be trying to work at McDonald's, then overnight became able to run a temperature graded time of about 2:15 at the Olympics is stupendously suspicious. The fact she is still running a 2:24:xx at NYC and with broken ribs adds nitrous to the suspicions.
Why do you guys keep bringing up NCAA titles as if they mean anything on the world stage? NCAA titles mean nothing competing with the real elites of marathons. If Seidel ran her graded times from her NCAA champion days, she would be several miles behind the front of the elite women marathons.
Do you know who else was NCAA champion? Shelby Houlihan
SeattleSilver wrote:
That is a bootstrap argument. You expect people to take it as gospel that the story is unbelievable, and they argue that more needs to be said for 'transparency'. Leaving aside whether she owes anyone transparency so long as she is passing any doping tests she is called upon to take (I don't think she does), not everyone agrees that the story is unbelievable. People can run with broken ribs, and people with her credentials, motivation and likely pain threshold can do it with cracked ribs. And beating Goucher may not be as difficult as you think if you are a runner of Seidel's apparent caliber.
What a convenient time to point out that American Coach Eric Lira is doping American and other athletes with testosterone, EPO, HGH and other drugs. And from the messages with Blessing Okagbare, they are micro-dosing the PEDs to remain below positive drug test thresholds. Only reason Okagbare got caught is someone they know snitched on them first and then suddenly her drug tests start becoming positive because you know, WADA has to save their reputation. And the other American and other nationality athletes Eric Lira has been doping have never returned a positive drug test (Just like Lance Armstrong and Marion Jones). It would be extremely easy for Prince Charming and Cinderella to be doing the same micro-dosing. Who knows, maybe Eric Lira is also "coaching" Seidel.
https://www.letsrun.com/news/2022/01/is-it-safe-to-take-a-test-this-morning-fbi-investigation-reveals-text-messages-from-olympic-doper/MeToo! wrote:
As I already told the other posters, the best 5-15k PR Seidel ever had previous to 2019 converts to an optimal conditions marathon time of 2:30+.
15:15 / 32:24 point to 2:30+ ?
You have not the slightest clue about running.
Women with 16+ / 33+ recent track PBs run 2:26...
OriginalLurker wrote:
MeToo! wrote:
As I already told the other posters, the best 5-15k PR Seidel ever had previous to 2019 converts to an optimal conditions marathon time of 2:30+.
15:15 / 32:24 point to 2:30+ ?
You have not the slightest clue about running.
Women with 16+ / 33+ recent track PBs run 2:26...
She does worse outdoors compared to her indoor times. And last I checked, marathons are not going to be on indoor tracks. And yes, her pre-2019 PRs do convert to 2:30+ using any respectable calculator.
And for those other woman, either they are sandbagging or also doping.
https://worldathletics.org/athletes/united-states/molly-seidel-14437057MeToo! wrote:
Are you seriously denying the science of temperature graded times?
I am seriously proclaiming that you are an idiot with out the slightest concern for accuracy. No way that Molly's olympic time converts to anyhing near the time you claim.
Surely you’re dumb enough to say that Hasay must have doped too.
monsewer wrote:
MeToo! wrote:
Are you seriously denying the science of temperature graded times?
I am seriously proclaiming that you are an idiot with out the slightest concern for accuracy. No way that Molly's olympic time converts to anyhing near the time you claim.
So you are a science denier. The temperature graded times for the two East Africans matches right up close to their PRs from previous marathons. Molly Seidel is the only one that is raising alarm bells with her temperature graded Olympic Marathon time. Makes sense to take the maximum PEDs you can get away with for the biggest race every 4 years, right?
prognog wrote:
Surely you’re dumb enough to say that Hasay must have doped too.
Coached by Salazar, enough said.
MeToo! wrote:
OriginalLurker wrote:
15:15 / 32:24 point to 2:30+ ?
You have not the slightest clue about running.
Women with 16+ / 33+ recent track PBs run 2:26...
She does worse outdoors compared to her indoor times. And last I checked, marathons are not going to be on indoor tracks. And yes, her pre-2019 PRs do convert to 2:30+ using any respectable calculator.
Calculators were inaccurate before, especially calculation for marathon from old or not peak shape track times when runners focussed on marathon and since the supershoes, SOME (not all) runners run MUCH faster on roads and marathons than they perform on track. One can suspect foul play or disproportional effects of shoes or just better marathon specific training but none of this is special for Seidel.
MeToo! wrote:
As I already told the other posters, the best 5-15k PR Seidel ever had previous to 2019 converts to an optimal conditions marathon time of 2:30+.
[quote]MeToo! wrote:
Why do you guys keep bringing up NCAA titles as if they mean anything on the world stage? NCAA titles mean nothing competing with the real elites of marathons. If Seidel ran her graded times from her NCAA champion days, she would be several miles behind the front of the elite women marathons.
You still refuse to answer my question.
Seidel didn't just win titles (which history has shown matters). She was also one of the fastest runners in NCAA history. Here's a short list of runners who were slower than Seidel in college: Shalane Flanagan, Kara Goucher, Jordan Hasay, Sally Kipyego, Deena Kastor. I count 3 Olympic medals, 1 WC medal, and 5 American records in that group. Hasay, the odd one out, also has a ridiculously fast marathon to her name.
So, please, answer these questions or else shut up: Is it your contention that every runner in NCAA history lacks the talent to be world class? And why is it "ridiculously suspicious" for Seidel to break Kara's "American course record" at NY when Seidel was significantly faster in college than Kara?
Let me also add Molly Huddle, and we can take the AR count up to 7.