Jakob Ingebrigtsen - THE MF GOAT -

Totally agree! This thread is oozing with jealousy & denial!

One more point against national stereotypes (particularly ones that favor Europeans): CYCLING! (Also skiing, but I know that the Norwegian chamber of commerce has talking points about how it is only the other Scandinavian countries that cheat in skiing, while Norway is pure). (Also Regina Jacobs went to Stanford and I'm sure was making a lot less money as a runner than she would have been in a regular job, yet she cheated). (Also there are thousands of recreational cyclists in the US with regular jobs who take testosterone or EPO just so they can finish top 5 in some local race, even though they are risking their reputations).

The sad truth is probably that human nature is consistent and weak across all countries, meaning that there is a good chance everyone cheats, no matter the country.

Jacob was great and I have no particular reason to think he wasn't clean. It is despicable and idiotic, however, to use Jacob to promote theories of European moral supremacy.

Where are these racist boogeymen that Letsrun constantly moans about? Seriously, where are they? You people keep cooking up this narrative that there are people who universally condemn African champions as dopers and believe European champions to be clean. But these people do not exist in anywhere near the magnitude that you purport.

The reason people think Jakob is clean is because he has had a camera in his face for the last decade, he has had an extremely consistent progression during that time, and he has unambiguously passed all of his tests in the country of Norway, which has amongst the most stringent of sports testing in general and especially throughout the pandemic this last year and a half.

The ONLY evidence that anyone has as to Jakob being dirty is some phony IAAF report from supposed Russian hackers that put his brother on a "probable dopers" list. Where is the evidence that this document is even legitimate? Who says someone didn't just type up a PDF document with random names on it? Where is the chain of custody? Where is the investigative rigor? Where is the proof that it hasn't been tampered with or entirely 100% fabricated? Seriously, look up "Ingebrigtsen russian hacker" all you get are Letsrun threads with people circle jerking about how dirty they think the Ingebrigtsens are.

The general contention on Letsrun that people are unfairly accusing Africans of doping and deliberately not accusing Europeans of doping is a perfect inversion of reality. Thread after thread after thread accuses Euros like Jakob and Warholm of doping, but hardly any accuse African champions of doping.

The oft decried "anti-African bias" on this site is entirely a product of your imagination.

Ofc you will find lots of individual cases where rich ppl take illegal shortcuts. There will always exist exceptions to the rule. Simple as that. And the number of cases will be a minority compared to those without education, a job and enough money to provide for a good and healthy life.

Aristoteles summed it up perfectly: "poverty is the parent of crime". And it has nothing to do with some kind of moral code where rich ppl are better than poor once. Its all about luck, where someone from Norway has won the lottery at birth, and opportunities in life.

Btw, I did one mistake; over exaggerated the level of poverty in Africa as a huge continent. But the point still stand. The chance of someone committing a crime as a way of living will always be significant larger in poorer countries.

Advantages for Ingebrigtsen's for doping:

1) Being well-off from a rich country with access to drugs and technology

2) Relatively few drug busts in Norwegian running so maybe using this as a "cover"

Disadvantages:

1) Being part of reality show which allows cameras deep into their lives and making it harder to hide illegal behavior

2) Not one but THREE top athletes being regularly tested, and if one gets popped, the others re immediately suspect. Nothing like this has happened unless you believe Putin-backed Fantasy Bears stuff. So Jakob is essentially under three times the testing pressure as normal, even more when you consider outsiders with cameras in their house.

Advantages for African doping:

1) Poor quality of whereabouts or regular testing (only was brought near to western standard a few years ago and suddenly dozens of busts, some very prominent like Kiprop). Fence jumping even works.

Ethiopia still like a "black box" as for Kenya circa 2010.

2) Having corrupt federations, agents and testers ("Tea Money" guys) to encourage access to drugs or cover up bad tests

3) Being from a poor "nothing to lose" system where even in $10K in winnings through doping can buy family security. Cheating this system for life-changing financial security seeming less unethical than for ego or sporting glory in the West. So a better tradeoff for risk/reward. Gjert's family is obviously well-off from his business and has no such incentives.

If, as an African, you get popped at age 24, you just brush it off as due to you were young and deceived and Hakuna Matata everyone shrugs and goes back to regular life, but keeping the winnings they took from honest athletes.

Disadvantages:

1) Not as wealthy to afford good lawyers etc. to challenge testing positives

2) No burrito trucks to blame

I give Africans the edge still. Especially over Jakob. He is in the spotlight now for over a decade, and shows a perfect lifetime progression. Was he doping at 16 for a 3:56 mile? Maybe but you have to be very cynical or biased to think they would be so stupid and taking risks like that. And he is not like someone from NOP or BTC with Nike right there to cover his back. Gjert is running a pretty independent training setup, although of course technically employed by the Evil Empire in Beaverton.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

He ran great, race broke perfectly for guys with top fitness. No tactics just run

No tactics?

He was the one who took out the first lap fast.

Definitely a tactic.

Then he waited for just the right time to pounce and run for the win. Also, a pretty popular tactic for people with big kicks.

I could never understand the criticism of Jakob that he could not kick. Had these people never seen the video of the Payton Jordan 1500M when he was only 17? He absolutely obliterated the field in the last 200M that included Centro, Chilimo, Engels and Grant Fisher. He was more than 1 second faster than Chelimo over the final 200M and almost 2 seconds faster than Centro. Here are the time calculations for the final 100M at the Olympics. It is clear that he had the best kick of anyone in the field and that was off a fast pace.

1 Jakob 13.62

3 Josh 13.65

6 Cole 13.9

2 Tim 14.11

4 Abel 14.26

9 Jake H 14.33

5 Adel 14.37

11 Oliver 14.49

8 Michal 14.57

7 Stewart 14.71

10 Jake W 15.19

13 Ignatio 15.26

12 Charles 15.7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waroBQUF1m8

Was Ingebrigtsen Sr. A failed runner? Asking for a friend.

Footman wrote:

I could never understand the criticism of Jakob that he could not kick. Had these people never seen the video of the Payton Jordan 1500M when he was only 17? He absolutely obliterated the field in the last 200M that included Centro, Chilimo, Engels and Grant Fisher. He was more than 1 second faster than Chelimo over the final 200M and almost 2 seconds faster than Centro. Here are the time calculations for the final 100M at the Olympics. It is clear that he had the best kick of anyone in the field and that was off a fast pace.

1 Jakob 13.62

3 Josh 13.65

6 Cole 13.9

2 Tim 14.11

4 Abel 14.26

9 Jake H 14.33

5 Adel 14.37

11 Oliver 14.49

8 Michal 14.57

7 Stewart 14.71

10 Jake W 15.19

13 Ignatio 15.26

12 Charles 15.7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waroBQUF1m8

You are comparing Ingerbrigsten with others runners in a race where they were exhausted.

The real kick you see it when two runners are side by side in the last 10 meters.

I get sad and angry when threads almost immediately starts with arguing about doping. Stupid, go discuss somewhere else if you have to point to doping EVERY time someone does something great.

Asthma medication does not enchance performance, it just restores to a normal level if you have asthma problems. I too question why such medication is used so much, but, no need to claim it enhances performance above 100% which is does not. Probably, a lot of intense running in cold weather can irritate and asthma problems can develop. That is my only explanation to why Norway has many. I guess many skiers have such trouble competing in cold weather all the time.

Regarding his kick. I think he is a smooth runner regardless his pace. You can sort of not tell how fast he is running and can only see a kick when comparing to others. There is nothing wrong with his top speed...

bcun g wrote:

Was Ingebrigtsen Sr. A failed runner? Asking for a friend.

Ingebrigtsen sr. has never participated in any sports.

Don't count your chicks before they hatch..

Don't start celebrating yet!

Did you look closely at Tim in the heats? He had an injury..

Our Kenyan guys who didn't participate well but they're still lethal:

Charles simotwo...

Kamar Etyang still a junior but made the Olympic cut... He's in the under 20 Athletics championships happening here in Nairobi...

Have you forgotten Asbel kiprop and Elijah manangoi???

We have a vast pool of talents in 1500..

Those are just a few_ and we keep churning new each time! We don't have only one person we're looking at now as Norway that only has Jakob...

The real kick is when they are racing - whatever their position. Jakob had the best kick.

KaareV wrote:

bcun g wrote:

Was Ingebrigtsen Sr. A failed runner? Asking for a friend.

Ingebrigtsen sr. has never participated in any sports.

Why the enormous amount of interest in distance running?

The 2020 Summer Olympics were held in 2021 due to the postponement caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. In the Men's 1500 meters at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, Jakob Ingebrigtsen of Norway won the gold medal. He finished the race with a time of 3:28.32, securing the top position.

3 years later he could not replicate this victory :(

Atleast he got Olympic 5000m

Bump