Katir is the most obvious doper of all time

Charlie Chaplin wrote:

This guy consistently defends Ramzi. I never thought this forum would reach the level that even Ramzi would be consistently defended.

Perhaps ex-runner would like to defend Ramzi as well? The taboo has been broken. If ex-runner praises Ramzi, perhaps Canova will step in and claim that EPO doesn't even work on elite Moroccans. Then Rojo can start a petition to have Ramzi reinstated.

Doping is an infraction that has her own circumstances.

You are not allowed to project anything "subjective" to an athlete that committed an infraction at a certain time.

I can give the example of Aouita and his transformation at the age 22/23.

But I don't have documents.

Jesus, now it's Ramzi, Farah, and Aouita as examples of 'clean progressions' at 23 like Katir.

Kimbui wrote:<...... 3:28s.....>

If we extrapolate the time it took for these 10 men to break 3:30, all that demonstrates is that it took Katir 58 days from his previous PR to run 3:28, compared to Cacho, who took 1,470 days to PR from 3:32.01 to 3:28.95; Makhloufi 1,452 days to get to his 3:28; and eventually down to Farah who took only 15 days to bag his first career sub-3:30 (3:28.81). Farah and Kitur go 1-2 here in time between PRs to 3:28.

Wouldn't it be a better gauge to take the % improvement from their previous PRs down to those 3:28s?

Katir sits second at 14.5% behind Farah's 15.2% improvement.

Ingebrigtsen (3:30.16) 4.0%

Makhloufi (3:30.40) 5.2%

Ngeny (3:30.34) 5.2%

Morceli (3:30.75) 6.7%

Baala (3:30.97) 7.9%

Lagat (3:30.56) 6.4%

Kwemoi (3:31.48) 7.9%

Cacho (3:32.01) 10.2%

Katir (3:33.62) 14.2%

Farah (3:33.98) 15.2%

Looks like with another Mohammed Farah, Mohammed Katir 1-2 in the PR department for whatever that's worth.

Why complicate this:. Boiling it down:

Katir went from 3:37 (age 21) to 3:28 (age 23).

There are extenuating factors like super spikes (possibly 1-2 seconds aid), lack of support/resources before his breakthroughs, the pandemic (big training opportunity), maturity, Monaco track/race (fastest setup with wavelight, incredible competition, pacing), altitude training.

It’s still a massive jump of course, so ultimately he is either an incredible talent (3:28/12:50 after a monster 2-year period) or an incredible doper (a la Ramzi).

It's not complicated.

Everyone around Katir on that 328 % list has gotten popped or was under suspicion, up through Lagat. 5s improvements to 3:28 are rare, and rarely come cleanly.

People are sounding the BS radar on the Spaniard.

How much evening primrose oil do you think he's taking?

wwwwwwww wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

The poster stated that Katir is a doper because he is Muslim. I'll allow you to say it is not 'racist' as Islam is not a race, but it is unfounded and deeply offensive.

The low level of incompetence was displayed by the poster claiming that history shows Muslims are the worst offenders of doping, when in fact it is quite clearly Christians or those of no religion.

Tying doping to religion is idiotic.

The guy he replied to was the one who brought up religion as if it helps his case. You didn't seem to care then and now you're even making multiple posts singling out Christian runners yourself. Clearly only some religions are off limits in a negative context.

The guy replied to me. I said it is racist to state Muslims are more likely to dope and he said "it's not racist because Islam isn't a race". That old chestnut.

There is no relationship between religions and doping. It's idiotic. I pointed out people from other religious backgrounds other than Islam who doped to prove there is no correlation.

Katir might be doping or he might not be. But race and religion needs to stop being used as 'evidence' one way or the other on this board. It's ignorant. And people of all nations and backgrounds have been caught doping.

Harambe wrote:

AtletaEspanolo wrote:

if the Spanish Anti doping wanted....

Well, there's the issue

Exactly, if Spain did drug testing their economy would fall apart.

You do realise that Morocco has a culture of drug taking in middle and long distance running?

te5n1k wrote:

4hw45h wrote:

Jakob went from 3:39 to 3:31 at the age of 17.

Oh but he is white, sorry.

And then "he was maturing", etc.

White = Clean for most Letsrun posters and Katir doesn't even have a white name. So he can't be clean.

lol at 17 most people are still going thru puberty...that isnt suspicious at all. however, at 23...it is.

At age 10 Jakob Ingebrigtsen ran 8km in 30 mins. At age 11 he reportedly had a Vo2Max of 68, perhaps the highest ever for someone so young, an indicator that he could do a sub 16 min 5km. I recall a tweet from Nick Willis pointing out how Henrik or Filip's "little brother just ran 3:42 for 1500m at age 15"

Subway Surfers wrote:

I recall a tweet from Nick Willis pointing out how Henrik or Filip's "little brother just ran 3:42 for 1500m at age 15"

Most elite athletes dope maybe 99% so don’t be a hater. The issue is in order to make money they appear to be clean and come “clean” when tested. BS.

Drugs, race, religion ... :)

Drugs - yes, obviously there is drugs in sport. It's clear that there is when you look at women distance running. Drugs make a lot bigger difference in women than men. Take the Monaco 1500m for example 2 runners a clear gap of 10secs on the rest of the field (of elite runners). What would we think of a the men's diamond league 1500m having a gap of 10sec? These times are better than known drug regime times - East Germany, Russia, China. So of course there is suspicion with these fast times.

Race - sick of hearing the race card played every time an athlete is suspect. It seems to be the only lense that some can see through. Unless there is an obvious racist remark, don't project your racism on others by playing that card. Critical race theory is the most most racist and ridiculous ideology ever dreamt up and has no correlation with the real world.

Religion - drugs have nothing to do with religion. Those that take drugs and are religious are being hypocritical. Religious beliefs may constrain the temptation to do drugs, but at the end of the day every person has the same problem regardless of race or religion - we make selfish choices which affect others.

Passant wrote:

I can give the example of Aouita and his transformation at the age 22/23.

But I don't have documents.

Aouita? The coach against whom two Australian athletes testified that he told them they must take banned substances? You may win the prize for worst argumentation.

Moroccan Roller wrote:

Aouita? The coach against whom two Australian athletes testified that he told them they must take banned substances? You may win the prize for worst argumentation.

You are driving flies ironic name.

The thread is not that he’s suspicious it’s that he’s the most obvious ever. I’d disagree, but of course he warrants suspicion for this crazy improvement.

Drugs work just as well on men as women, weird argument above. The women’s field isn’t as deep and three of the top 5 in the world in Muir, Tsegay and Purrier weren’t there…missing GDS, Houlihan (doping), Reekie, Arafi as well. When that much of the top 10 is absent and you have blowups from McGee and Chebet that’s what the gap ends up.

4hw45h wrote:

another sham scam wrote:

Stop it. You’re being disingenuous.

Stop it. You don't know the meaning of that word.

Yet the mods do nothing to prevent these types of discussions from happening. It’s dumb. People just can’t simply run fast anymore.

Subway Surfers wrote:

te5n1k wrote:

lol at 17 most people are still going thru puberty...that isnt suspicious at all. however, at 23...it is.

At age 10 Jakob Ingebrigtsen ran 8km in 30 mins. At age 11 he reportedly had a Vo2Max of 68, perhaps the highest ever for someone so young, an indicator that he could do a sub 16 min 5km. I recall a tweet from Nick Willis pointing out how Henrik or Filip's "little brother just ran 3:42 for 1500m at age 15"

Uh huh.