Slow is okay wrote:
I would guess 23-48-1:45
A last lap of 57 is slow for these guys even for a 5k.
I would guess 27-53-1:45.8 and a negative split.
Slow is okay wrote:
I would guess 23-48-1:45
A last lap of 57 is slow for these guys even for a 5k.
I would guess 27-53-1:45.8 and a negative split.
Semiler wrote:
Slow is okay wrote:
I would guess 23-48-1:45
A last lap of 57 is slow for these guys even for a 5k.
I would guess 27-53-1:45.8 and a negative split.
You really think he was talking about Jakob's 800m race splits? xD
He was talking about his potential ability over 200/400/800 all-out.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
Semiler wrote:
A last lap of 57 is slow for these guys even for a 5k.
I would guess 27-53-1:45.8 and a negative split.
You really think he was talking about Jakob's 800m race splits? xD
He was talking about his potential ability over 200/400/800 all-out.
Studies show that the capacity to understand a joke reflects the IQ. xD
Heat 10:
WARLO, Didrik 1:49.56 (NOR)
TVEIT, Sigurd 1:49.40 (NOR)
HANSEN, Kristian Uldbjerg 1:48.45 (DEN)
EINAN, Markus 1:47.64 (NOR)
GRØNSTAD, Tobias 1:50.53 (NOR)
INGEBRIGTSEN, Jakob 1:49.40 (NOR)
INGEBRIGTSEN, Filip Mangen 1:47.79 (NOR)
ROTH, Per Andreas 1:47.10 (NOR)
Everything suggests that Andreas Roth will take on the pacing dutites.
Here is another race at Bislett at which he paces his brother Thomas to 1:45.7. However I think he will be instructed to go 2 seconds slower than 50 for the first 400m tomorrow.
a 48 second 400 runner would need to run a 200 close to 22.2 or even less.meanwhile i think the ingebretsens will run close to 1.46 on tuesday.
No. Most 3:30 1500 guys can't break 23 out of the blocks or 48 out of the blocks but they can run 1:45.
Semiler wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
You really think he was talking about Jakob's 800m race splits? xD
He was talking about his potential ability over 200/400/800 all-out.
Studies show that the capacity to understand a joke reflects the IQ. xD
It works both ways. To make a good joke also requires IQ.
jeff tallon wrote:
a 48 second 400 runner would need to run a 200 close to 22.2 or even less.meanwhile i think the ingebretsens will run close to 1.46 on tuesday.
They aren't sub-23 runners over 200. They will be doing well to run anywhere near 1.46.
Slow is okay wrote:
No. Most 3:30 1500 guys can't break 23 out of the blocks or 48 out of the blocks but they can run 1:45.
I don't know if you are right about that. Willis is a sub-3.30 runner but wouldn't get anywhere near 1.45. The 800 is a very different race now from the 1500, and the events typically produce their own specialists.
His PR is 1:45. His PR in the 1500 is 3:29.7. 3:30 has to be able to run 1:45.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Slow is okay wrote:
No. Most 3:30 1500 guys can't break 23 out of the blocks or 48 out of the blocks but they can run 1:45.
I don't know if you are right about that. Willis is a sub-3.30 runner but wouldn't get anywhere near 1.45. The 800 is a very different race now from the 1500, and the events typically produce their own specialists.
Nick Willis:
1:45.54 Belgium 2004
He had also run 3:32 for 1500.
Most 3:30 guys can run 1:45 for 800. It's not some outlandishly rapid time. If you can run 3.75 laps in 56 you can probably manage 2 in under 53.
Half your 1500m best is pretty much the expected 800m time for a 1500 specialist. Some go faster others slower.
i.e 3:40/2=1:50 or 3:30/2=1:45 etc.
ex-runner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I don't know if you are right about that. Willis is a sub-3.30 runner but wouldn't get anywhere near 1.45. The 800 is a very different race now from the 1500, and the events typically produce their own specialists.
Nick Willis:
1:45.54 Belgium 2004
He had also run 3:32 for 1500.
Most 3:30 guys can run 1:45 for 800. It's not some outlandishly rapid time. If you can run 3.75 laps in 56 you can probably manage 2 in under 53.
Half your 1500m best is pretty much the expected 800m time for a 1500 specialist. Some go faster others slower.
i.e 3:40/2=1:50 or 3:30/2=1:45 etc.
I'm surprised that Willis has run that fast over 800. My mistake. I guess with 2 Olympic medals he has to have a respectable turn of speed. However, I still doubt that Jakob is quick enough to go better than 1.46.
Armstronglivs wrote:
they aren't slow wrote:
Like I told Phil, you would have made the same argument about Alan Webb in 2006 if anyone told you he was capable of sub-1:44 (or sub-1:45 even). It's the same logic ignorant people use when they suggest El G was only good for 1:45.
Can you reword your statement regarding basic speed? It isn't very clear what you're trying to say.
Basic speed is a term from Lydiard. It refers to the sprint capability of athlete over a sustained distance. His measure was 200. He believed basic speed determined the event an athlete was best suited to. An 800 runner requires a higher basic speed than an athlete competitive at a longer distance.
Typically a sub-1.45 runner over 800 would require sub-23 speed over 200 and hence sub-49 over 400. (Snell was a 22-low 200 runner, as was Ryun, and Walker was near that. All were sub-1.45). As middle distance athletes go, most sub-1.45 runners are fast, in terms of their basic speed. The Ingebrigstens don't have that kind of speed. That is one of the reasons they rarely race the distance.
You glossed over my point about Alan Webb. I don't think the argument "if he was faster he would race this event more" is particularly compelling, but I guess we disagree.
I understand the concept of basic speed, I just didn't know what point you were trying to make. The statement "To beat 1.45 requires higher basic speed than 3.31 for 1500" can be read a couple different ways, but no matter how I interpret it it doesn't seem all that relevant to the discussion. Help me out here.
All the talk about the brothers' 200/400 speed is pure conjecture. I happen to think they can run close to 48 which would be good enough for sub 1:45. Nick Symmonds ran 47.45 just a couple weeks before breaking 1:43, and I know the Ingebrigtsens have better strength than him. But like I said, it's all conjecture. We'll find out which of us was closer once they've actually raced.
they aren't slow wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Basic speed is a term from Lydiard. It refers to the sprint capability of athlete over a sustained distance. His measure was 200. He believed basic speed determined the event an athlete was best suited to. An 800 runner requires a higher basic speed than an athlete competitive at a longer distance.
Typically a sub-1.45 runner over 800 would require sub-23 speed over 200 and hence sub-49 over 400. (Snell was a 22-low 200 runner, as was Ryun, and Walker was near that. All were sub-1.45). As middle distance athletes go, most sub-1.45 runners are fast, in terms of their basic speed. The Ingebrigstens don't have that kind of speed. That is one of the reasons they rarely race the distance.
You glossed over my point about Alan Webb. I don't think the argument "if he was faster he would race this event more" is particularly compelling, but I guess we disagree.
I understand the concept of basic speed, I just didn't know what point you were trying to make. The statement "To beat 1.45 requires higher basic speed than 3.31 for 1500" can be read a couple different ways, but no matter how I interpret it it doesn't seem all that relevant to the discussion. Help me out here.
All the talk about the brothers' 200/400 speed is pure conjecture. I happen to think they can run close to 48 which would be good enough for sub 1:45. Nick Symmonds ran 47.45 just a couple weeks before breaking 1:43, and I know the Ingebrigtsens have better strength than him. But like I said, it's all conjecture. We'll find out which of us was closer once they've actually raced.
Symmonds is a bit of a red herring though. He is an 800 specialist and could easily run a much faster 400 but never raced it enough to practice.
Symmonds would be much, much faster than any of the Ingebrigtsens over any distance under 1000m. Rolling start 200s, 400s would be an annihilation.
ex-runner wrote:
Coevett expects 1:42
Everyone else expects 1:45
No, I expect 1:44.5 - 1.45.5 from Jakob.
That would already mean he has close to surpassed Aouita in terms of range of times, because Aouita was.never a 1:43 guy in any season he was capable of sub 13:00 or 3:29.
Btw, I wonder what you think Donovan Brazier or Nijel Amos would run if they were able to compete in the same race tomorrow? 1:42? I don't think so.
Halvard wrote:
Lol we all know that's coevett. What's the problem if Aouita ran 7 800m in a season ? He does whatever he wants, you can't take frome him that he's an Olympic bronze medalist on the 800m, and Jakob will never get a global medal on the 800, not matter how hard he tries.
I love Jakob, he's my favorite runner, but please, stop literally suckg his d*ck, it's OBVIOUS he's a slow twitch 1500m runner, even if he never runs an 800m in his life, we can still all see he's a slow twitch runner because, physically you CAN'T have sub 12:50 ability (he has it) and 1:43:XX 800 and only run 3:30 flat on the 1500m. He's already a faster 5k runner than Aouita and we all know that, so, even if his 5k never improves anymore, the day he'll run 1:43/1:42 he's ready for the 1500m world record. Obviously it won't happen so he has to get his 5k time near the world record if he wants to have a shot at the 1500m world record.
Do you understand that you can't be great on the 800m (1:43) and on the 5000m (12:50) and only run 3:30 on the 5k ?
It's not an pejorative to say he is a slow twitch runner, (even the world record holder Hicham El Guerrouj is slow twitch), he would get smoked by Lewandowski on a 800m BUT he would absolutely crush him on a 5k, that's it. Jakob is a human, not a robot he can't be great everywhere, you have to accept that he's not like Coe, and that's fine because Jakob will probably run faster than him on the 1500m thanks to his phenomenal endurance.
I stand corrected about Aouita.
He didn't run the 800 seven times in 88. He ran it eight times.
More than Coe, Ovett, or Cram did in a single season as seniors.
See, your argument doesn't hold much weight because Aouita trained exclusively for the 800m in 88, broke 3:36 for the 1500m once out of 7 attempts, and didn't even run the 5000m that year (probably wouldn't sniff 13:10 if he had).
The idea that Jakob is naturally 'slow' is absurd. At 14 he ran the fastest ever 800m by an under 15 in history. If he spent a year training for the 800 he would easily get down to 1:43 at 19 or 20 years of age.
88 was a weak year for the 800m. Literally everybody was injured or missing.
Oh and let's not forget Steve Cram ran 1;42 beating his PB by I think 2 seconds, a fortnight after setting his 2000m record - and Jakib just beat that by 1 and a 1/2 seconds.
And one last thing - I"ve been asked to be more civil here and will gladly do so. Can you and others please stop making obscene statements whenever we discuss Jakob's potential? Thanks.
Brazier would run whatever it takes to win without gunning for a certain time. Hope that helps.
Coevett wrote:
The idea that Jakob is naturally 'slow' is absurd. At 14 he ran the fastest ever 800m by an under 15 in history.
False.
Coevett wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
Coevett expects 1:42
Everyone else expects 1:45
No, I expect 1:44.5 - 1.45.5 from Jakob.
That would already mean he has close to surpassed Aouita in terms of range of times, because Aouita was.never a 1:43 guy in any season he was capable of sub 13:00 or 3:29.
Btw, I wonder what you think Donovan Brazier or Nijel Amos would run if they were able to compete in the same race tomorrow? 1:42? I don't think so.
Aouita ran 1:43 so no Jakob hasn't surpassed him.
He also ran that in 1988 and he ran 12:58 in 1987 and 13:00 in 1989 so not sure where you are getting your data. And he was running 3:30 at that time also.
No you are right, Brazier and Amos, 800 specialists who jog 1:45s in rounds, would lose to Jakob tomorrow...