LYDIARD OR DANIELS?

Can you call me a Sydney Olympian too? Who cares if it is not true, the Comoxians will think you are fantastic race director.

Hahahaha! E, Sydney Olympian.....as in he watched it all on tv, and cheered for Seamus!

Dude, I ain't no race director. I'm finish line guy, and start line helper / yelper.

I also hear JB is coming. Not Oz though, due to close proximity of World XC.

JB will run that sucker in 62:50-63:10.

He'll light it up man!

Of course he can do that, but I heard that he was dealing with injury? This may be a "test", rather than an assured pace?

I wonder if he'll keep Lydiarding until 2008? (Topic at hand inserted there.)

I understand that there are some things he does that are not at all Lydiard-ish and some things that are totally Lydiard like.

For instance I heard he is specific down to the finest detail of pace when doing speed. That he extesnively uses an HRM in training.

But he puts in the mega mileage of course. Actually, I hear that his long runs or longer runs are not steady but kinda slow for him.

I'd like to know more about his training. - He definitely peaks Lydiard style.

I was SO hoping for that kind of response regarding JB training! :)

I don't know a lot about it, but George Gandy works with him? And reading Gandy, he is not coming across to me as Lydiardlike. But then, we are back to differences in fruit drinks.

Maybe I'll get Jerry Ziak on here. I think he has had some chats with JB.

(Oh hey. Back to training chat again! Sorry about previous diversions, folks.)

He does manage 140 miles per week sometimes...I think, if I remember he meniotned 100-120 as typical.

Alright guys, you got my attention. Who works with George Gandy? Wasn't he the Indian leader? Just kidding! Waaaaay back there was an article about Gearge Gandy in Runner's World (like I said, I think it was 1980) and I still have it somewhere. I know Coe worked with him. I remember, way back then, that I linked Gandy's various exercises to Lydiard's hill training. Does anybody have information on George Gandy's exercises? I'd be curious...

Nobby,

Check your email.

Aaaah! Just finished my 21min jog + strides + 3:12 surge + 15min jog, in glorious west coast sunshine!

Wow! Great article. Thanks, Skuj!

Hi Tina

I'm hoping all goes well for you for Boston. If this is your first one it will be an experience. For me both times I did 'beantown' 1981 & /82 it was one of the big highlights of my 38 plus years of my running career despite I blew up both times, especially in the heat of 1982 (you might have heard how A. Salazar was on IV's after winning).

I have known R.B. actually since 1965 when a group of us teens used to train 2x sometimes 3x a week on this old high school cinder track. Always have learned to take him (same with B.R.) with a grain of pepper. Yeah he is a great coach even tho' I cannot personally attest to this as I never had him as my coach.

Yup I get thoroughly frustrated and pissed off to the max. more so with the PIH forum. I'm presently injured or running like I've got a slow puncture (chronic piriformis problem). Asked advice about a resulting knee prob. a couple of years ago & got a lot of flippant replies...guess with some running clubs (this one which I once again decided to renew membership) the herd instinct prevails...sure sensitive but...dealing with some more serious problems simultaneously with running injuries...

All The Best Tina

Chris

AKA; Lionsgater (Alligater), Howard (The Duck), The Wizard.

I had an idea that a few of those psuedonyms were originating from the same person. :)

Sorry about your injuries...I hope things get better. My feeling about the club/coaching situation in our area is that things are getting way to "cliquey".

When Lydiard had his marathon runners run the 35k time trail 4 weeks before their marathon race, how fast did they do it? For example their goal is to run a 2:24 marathon(5:30 pace). What pace would try to run the time trail in?

Thanks Tina.

>>>My feeling about the club/coaching situation in our area is that things are getting way to "cliquey".<<<

Same over there in Van. huh?

Seems like it's a matter of who you are not so much of what or how well you can run etc.

The two times I got into relay team captaining? Like pulling impacted wisdom teeth!

Hope I don't sound like someone who carries a grudge but it's a trait I'm trying to get rid of.

Oh yeah, to the webmaster of LetsRun, sorry for this 'inside discussion' just a lot of dialogue which is better aired out on neutral ground.

Oh what a glorious sunny day that was in Godscountry. Hey all you Godscountrians, what y'all doin on this thread? Hahahahahahaha. The North Pacific invasion.

I hope that 35km time trial question gets answered by the Great Nobzilla! I would think that doing it AT goal Marathon pace is just about as hard as racing a Marathon. Surely a Half Marathon race makes sense 4 weeks out? JB likes that idea.

Here's my answer you all would hate: it all depends... Hahahahahahahaha! Sorry, I Skujed it (you're big enough to take some sense of humor, right, buddy?). Seriously though; here's my take of Japanese style interpretation based on the Lydiard principles...

Marathon is basically run aerobically throughout. In other words, at that pace, you should be able to handle that stress relatively easily (except perhaps for pounding). Let's face it, if you can't handle that speed 3~4 weeks before the marathon for 30k or so, you should think twice about the target pace. Now, consider you are not completely freshened up, you're still somewhat tired so you cannot expect to run the exact speed you'd like to perform on the peak (hopefully) day. So if you'd like to run at 2:24 marathon, I'd say you SHOULD be able to run 30k at 2:35 pace COMFORTABLY.

Now, seriously, some people "gain" stamina from such workout; some people actually "use up" stamina from such workout. You have to figure out which type you are. If you are the former, it pays to do 30 or even 35k (32 is actually pretty good distance because it's "10k to go" for the marathon) at fairly solid pace. If this type run, say, half marathon, you tend to run fairly fast (because it's shorter) and you might go over the edge and by the race day you could be flat. In other words, just because ONE athlete had a success doing one way, that does not mean that's the best general way.

There are other type, in general, speed-type, who tend to use up stamina by running long. They could run far but at very easy pace; or even a half marathon is good but perhaps at "marathon" target pace. I don't know which type JB is but clearly he had pretty darn good success. Could he have run better with other program? Well, he just needs to experiment to find out. Again, in general, it's not the smartest way to tackle a new event on the most important competitions (Olympic Games?)--yes, some did pretty well (Zatopek?), but I would not recommend it. You want to figure out what works best for you.

How did I do, Skuj?

I was reading what I wrote (I was sending an e-mail to someone about marathon coordination) and that one line where I said "just because ONE athlete had success doing one way, that doesn't mean that's the best general way," I thought someone might jump all over by saying "See, that's what I mean about the Lydiard method!"... Well, here's my counter for that; what's important is PRINCIPLES and EVALUATION of each workout or pattern; to understand WHYs of each workout and construct your schedule based on logic and common sense. The Lydiard method I'm talking about is that FLOW or PATTERN of over-all training. Whether you use half marathon or 10k or 35k for the final preparation to the marathon does not matter too much. The point is why you do it and what physiological and mechanical reaction you'd expect by doing that; plus how long will it take for YOU as an indivisual to get the most effective feedback from that workout and, based on that, where do you slap that workout in relation to your most imporatnt race. Gosh, what a bunch of BS I just slap together...! What do you think?

Oh Man, you did great, as always Nobby! Thank you. You are brilliant, yet humble! :) You got my vote for poster of the year.

Cheers

Skuj