50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Hoping to see some of y'all boys in Lisle for USATF Nats.

Massive thanks to the Masters Boys from Eugene who this past Thursday night acted like Geoff Hollister or Bill Bowerman and made sure to hold that 800m race despite the T-Storm far-away that cancelled the meet minutes before my race. I really needed that 2:08 before Lisle fellas. And that was one damn good beer at 19h and Agate soon after with y'all boys... KC Taylor, Bob, Ed Spinny, Logan, etc., etc. IOU!

THIS is what Masters is all about.

KP

Kind of in the doldrums running-wise, but as lucKY2b has pointed out just really glad to be out there and doing it, even if I feel like it's just going through the motions at time.

50.5 miles in 6 days, with 16 miles of rollersking on 2.

Won a 5K trail race in the middle of the week, it was kind of a work through and hard to gauge the time (18:00 flat course with lots of twists and turns on single track), but a win's a win.

Other highlights include running with my kids, who are starting to run me into the ground. I had to ask my 14 yr old to slow down today, he kept dropping to mid 7s. Looking forward to their xc season which starts in August, and working with their team.

So not sure where the rest of the season is headed for me--both feet hurt (flexor tendon on one, achilles on the other) which is hampering upping the mileage and doing speed work so I'm just running.

Mon- Slow but still quite testing 94 mins. run on my home trails and hills, steep and rocky. Probably about 16kms with about 400m vertical ascent accumulated.

Tue- Similar run, varied one section to add an extra climb and a scrambling descent. 100 mins. all up and probably about a km longer and 50m more ascent. Ran a little harder but speed is hard to measure on this country. Also did a session in the gym after work @ 10pm.

Wed- A busy morning despite a day off work. In the pm decided to drive up to visit my wife, she is doing her grad. year in a hospital 70kms away and stays up there 3-4 nights most weeks.

I stopped on the way up and did a 40 min kyak session in Lake Cooper then warmed up the legs and off for a flat chat 1 hour ride on flat dirt farm roads, windy so speed varied from 25-35km per hour interrupted briefly by a muddy paddock crossing at much slower speeds.

Thu- Squeezed in 5 very cold kms on an icy morning before work.

Fri- Started work at 5.45 am. and had hpoed to finish 12 hours later and get in some running, alas I didn't get to finish until 11.45 pm. Needless to say I skipped the running.

Sat- 1 hour kyak on the lake in the am.

Gave our club run a miss as we have just got the keys for a new property and spent the day working on it. 9km run in 50 mins in the evening.

Sun- 4km warmup,10km handicap trail race 40.35, 2km warmdown.

The race went well. In the previous race of this series I'd finished 2d (a few weeks back) so thought I might be a chance to win. I was handicapped at 15.35 from the gun. I was pretty sure my main rivals were those starting in front of me particularly Rhonda. She's our slowest runner and starts at the gun so has nearly 3km headstart on me.

I went hard from the start and by 1/2 way had already passed quite a few runners. By 8k I had passed all but two runners and by the 9th km was 2d. At this point I still hadn't seen Rhonda out in front. It wasn't until 700m to go I spotted her. She was still about 200m in front of me. I lost sight of her quite a few times around curves in the track, finally with about 300m to go I had a chance to put the target on her back, still about 70-80m in front, and lock in to a hard charge to the line. I caught her with about 30-40m to go and ended up beating her by a couple of seconds. A bit heartbreaking for her after running pretty much solo out in front for all that way.

Next week will be much harder for me as I was get pulled back about 90 secs. in the handicap for my win.

Hopefully no one catches Rhonda and she can have the thrill of crossing the line first.

Stories like the one's mentioned by L2b sicken me...What the hell is wrong people!?!? Things aren't the same as they used to be...

Like AK-54, seems like I'm going the running doldrums too. With no racing & no speedwork...just bangin' out the miles in this stinkin' heat & humidity is really starting to wear me down. Very non-eventful week: 71 miles. Only decent runs were Wed 10 @ 6:47 (in 96 degrees and a 69 dew point!!!), Thur prog 7 6:56 to 6:19, Sat 14 @ 6:57 but struggled with dehydration and starvation the last few miles. Man I need to be better prepared for my long runs!

This week will be kind of a transition week. I'll try to keep the miles up and run a decent race on Saturday. We'll see how that goes...Next week I want to start-up my weekly tempos. I've got a feeling it's going be rough going for a while as I haven't done crap for speedwork this year! Not sure where I'll start...maybe some off/ons, 3 mile tempos, might even venture over to the track, which I haven't been on since last Fall!!

Have a good week everyone,

Dave

Glad to read everyone's reports this week. The good news is that my PF is better than it was a week ago. The bad news is that I still can't run. I was inside working hard on the Schwinn Airdyne during the weekdays, but needed a change for the weekend. I did what lucKY2b did and tackled some yard work projects I'd been putting off because they always seem to hurt may hamstrings. I'll resist any "testing" of the PF until next weekend.

I do try to keep this in perspective and realize that many others are much worse off than I am.

week 58: A bad week due to work and travel, 26 miles in 5 runs, with two workouts

Tue 5 with drills, strides, 4x hill

Sun 11 quite hilly, too fast at the start, struggled at the end

week 59: 31 miles in 4 runs, with one workout

Sun 12 same hilly out and back, using the heart rate monitor this time, overall quicker pace and finished stronger

Catching up here, vacationing in Maine and have not bothered to get online. My plan was to run every day, but with all the extra hill running and hiking I injured the sesamoid in my left foot. That's a new one for me. Basically there are no flat routes here, so I backed off to every other day, and it is recovering fine.

Okay that part above was composed ahead of time.... I did read the latest two pages of posts, will probably chime in on the "ancillary work" question after I get home at the end of this week. Race reports are fun. Some of the other news is just too hard to think about, I'll save that effort for my next long run.

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Week 60

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Greetings Grandmasters! Continuing to slog through this sweltering weather (here in the eastern US, at least). I’ll try to keep it upbeat this week after last week’s somber posting.

Hit 40 miles for the first time since early June….had to do a few more miles than I would have chosen on Saturday, but that’s probably OK. This week’s log looks as such:

Sun: 6.3 w/last 4 in 27:12 (progressive)

Mon: 4 easy

Tue: 5 w/2k in 7:15

Wed: 4 w/5x1/2 mile trail loops done progressively (3:50 -> 3:05)

Thu: 5.2 w/2k in 7:19

Fri: 5 easy, half on trail

Sat: 10.8 w/5k race in 18:28

Once again, I managed to run in the afternoons each day but Saturday. Hot and humid is the only way to describe the week. As such, I just couldn’t bring myself to do a full workout, so I spread partial workouts over three days, and a soft progressive tempo last Sunday. Not sure how effective this training is for me. On Saturday, I ran a 5k race at 8am, then after the finish, drove home and at about 11am and went out and finished off another 6.5 (partially because I was determined to get back over 40 miles, partially because I wanted to get a bit longer day in.)

Race report (this’ll be a mouthful…but I was having too much fun writing it):

As I indicated last week, this race was started by a club member who went through the Shepard House alcohol recovery program: really a great guy, who exemplifies what being a runner for life means. I got up about 5:15 so that I could wake up and do my morning routine which includes a requisite couple shots of espresso just to get myself going. The one snag to my typical routine was that I was going to have to pick up the other car from our daughter’s abode about 3/4-mile away (my wife is off in Wisconsin for her 35th High School reunion….has it REALLY been THAT long? Sheesh!) So I packed up my stuff in a backpack and used the jog over as a bit of a warm-up. After stopping at Kroger to pick up a few things, I made it to the course with about 45 minutes to race time. The course is out at the Keeneland Race Track just on the edge of town; it is really the gateway to the pristine bluegrass horse farms and carries a vibe of an earlier time. The race starts in the parking lot outside the horse paddocks, winds its way up to the old gate house atop the hill at the front entrance, circles back down that hill steeply, then follows out to the other main road entrance over a broad hill about 3/4 of a mile, then reverses course meaning back up the steep hill with about a 2/3 mile to go, and then winds back downhill to the finish in front of the paddocks. There was an entire High-School cross-country team in full uniform along with several other pretty fast looking guys, so I figured I’d be able to just follow the leaders. True to form, all the youngsters went blazing across the parking lot from the start leaving these old slow legs to play catch-up. As we wound our way up the first hill, some of these youngsters had certainly gone out too fast and were already easy pickins’. By the time we reached the old gate house, there was a group-of-three well ahead of me, two of the high school kids just ahead of me, and everyone else trailing back from there. The group-of-three was already at the bottom of the steep hill by the time the HS kids and I reached the top. The two HS kids easily gapped me on the steep downhill (I just can’t get that kind of turnover going.) But once we hit the bottom, it was clear they overdid it, and I quickly reeled them in. As we rounded the corner to head over the next long hill out to the main road, I had already started to pull away from these remaining two HS runners, leaving just the group-of-three to chase; I passed the mile at 5:50. One of the three took water at the water stop, which I thought was odd. Then, about 200m afterward he stops for a second, then starts slowly jogging. I pass and ask if he’s OK, and he said that the water kinda messed him up; I just kept moving. Then as I crested the hill, one of the other two leaders just stopped, and I’m just confused as to what’s going on. Turns out, he was just helping to pace his friend. So now at the turn-around, I’m all of a sudden in second place! But this was only temporary, as the runner who had trouble at the water stop had regained his composure, caught and passed me midway on the return from the main road; I hit the two-mile mark in 11:57. Up ahead I could see the lead runner, and his pacer buddy that had rejoined him on the return route, and instead of retracing the route and heading up the hill, they turned right and headed straight for the finish! As we started to approach the same intersection, I implored the guy who had just passed me that we needed to turn left and go back up the steep hill. I must have yelled “Turn Left” about 4-5 times….he still turned right; I went left and was suddenly in the lead! The guy did realize after about 20 meters that he should have listened to me, so he turned around and was now about 35 or so meters behind me. I figured he would catch me, but instead, I gapped him badly on the steep uphill….I guess he had run out of gas. So by the time I was on the final descent, I was just cruising down the hill to the finish, came through mile-3 in 17:55 and won the race without a kick in 18:28! The faster guy actually went through the finish in 13:40 or so…but was obviously DQ’d afterward, and this other runner did manage to hang on and finish second (not sure how far behind, but quite a bit). One of the HS runners finished third, and another master’s friend of mine managed to pick off the other HS runners to take fourth. I guesstimate there were a couple hundred finishers in the race, which is typical for around here. Morals of the story: i) know the course, and ii) even the old dog gets the bone from time to time. Afterward, I talked with the guy who was second, and this was his first ever 5k. Turns out he was a 400/800 runner who had just graduated HS, and was starting at Centre College in the fall. His coach wanted him to run cross-country for conditioning, so he has been running more distance, but he’d only ever raced one 1600m and one 3200m on the track in his life; everything else has been shorter stuff. His lack of experience really was his downfall; he probably should have beaten me, if he hadn’t tried to stay with the other guys early in the race and had run a more even pace. The post-race was nice, as Subway had donated several 6-foot subs, and there were plenty of fruit and rolls along with refreshments. There was a $75 cash–prize for the winners, but I couldn’t see taking it, so I gave it back to the organization.

I know that was long-winded, but I hope you found it entertaining, and I thank you for putting up with my self-indulgence. I know it’s a pretty paltry winning time, but hey, it was fun and fun to recap given the weird things that happened during the race. In the end, I really didn’t feel that I’d given it my all during the race. In fact, I was ready to go out and run a bunch more afterward, and so I did when I got home after the protracted awards ceremony. And my left knee is feeling about as good as it has all spring. So I feel that I’m ready to get back to normal training. I continue with the retro-running steps post-run, but the last couple of weeks I’ve also added a sort of jumping-jack-style side-stepping exercise. Not sure how else to describe it, and I couldn’t find an example on the web. You side-step kinda like you would move back and forth on the baseline in a tennis match, but remaining more erect, then you raise your arms on one complete side-step cycle, and lower them on the next (unlike jumping jacks where you cycle the arms with each repeat.) I do 20 arm-motion cycles each direction (so 40 steps). I have to say that this has really helped with the IT, and I honestly feel that adding this last routine to the retro-running has been the answer to my IT issues; hopefully it’s the solution to the knee issue, too.

OK, hope you all are enjoying the start to the Olympics. I’m really looking forward to the start of the T&F at the weekend. I’ll also be finishing off teaching my summer courses at the University this week, then it’s back to the Community College for the regular semester. No rest for the weary!

I look forward to hearing what’s happening in your neck of the woods, wherever your training/racing/rehab is at.

Cheers!

lucKY2b, I enjoyed the race description. The local road racing scene has a way of creating these unusual adventures.

I'm still out with PF, and taking my frustrations out on the Airdyne, to the point of irritating my hamstrings. Anyway, it is improving, as walking is now generally pain free. I have not broken my promise to test it with running.

The big news is the my wife and I will be travelling to London this week as part of the Track & Field News tour. I'm am trying to tamp down my anticipation, but it is really hard now that the Games have started. I'll provide a report when we return.

By the way, the hotel has a great fitness center, so I hope to keep some level of exercise activity going while I'm there.

week 60: 32 miles in 4 runs, with one workout

Sun long run 13 miles on a relatively flat Ohio route

The sesamoid thing is not bothering me too much, I'm going to try to up the mileage and see how it goes.

@lucky2b A win is a win! You also showed good sportsmanship, so that's another win! Nice going.

Rtype wrote:

Once again, I’ll represent the odd-ball atypical approach and posit that most of my injuries evaporated when I completely stopped stretching and doing any core work. I acknowledge this is patently “wrong-headed” according to the exercise guru’s. But I will probably not stick to it as I’m constantly adjusting and changing. But, one has to ask: Does not running adequately prepare one to, ummm, run?

Rtype has nailed the ancillary work question.

The gurus differ in their advice, while the scientific "studies" are inconclusive at best, contradictory at worst. My own approach is 100% empirical. I look at what the best runners do, and try whatever makes sense to me. If it works, it works, and if some expert starts telling me that it doesn't, then I just do my best Pee-Wee Herman, "la-la-la, la-la-la".

I do stretching religiously. I have been told there is no benefit, but my experiment of one has proven conclusively that I MUST STRETCH. Running without stretching equals injury. I also do core work religiously. Actually all the experts advise core work, but that's not why I do it! :) I do it for the same reason I stretch, to protect my back. So for me, the answer is "No, running is not enough." I know for a fact that I need stretching and core work in addition to running. That FACT means I am open minded about other types of ancillary work.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I need weight training. When I was young I had no problem mixing running and weight training. Of course back then I was a low mileage guy. As a master I've dabbled with weights, but it always hurt my running. I think my problem was that between December 2009 and March 2012 I was on a steady ramp of mileage, to which my body was constantly adjusting, and it couldn't handle the extra stress of weight training. So I would give up the weight training and the running got better. Now that my mileage has been lower for an extended period, the weight training is all positive.

I believe the risk of some types of ancillary work is directly related to the reward. In this category I put yoga, pilates, cross-fit, martial arts, and weight training. For example, since taking up yoga I have had three "running" injuries that were directly caused by the yoga. To me, this is proof that yoga is stressing my body in a way that running is not. It is logical to me that if my body adapts to these yoga moves then that will protect me against the associated running injuries. That needs testing, though.

Mon - 25k very hilly run 2.11.

Tue - 80min mountain bike ride on rugged trails.

Wed - 17k rugged trail run.

Thu - 17k rugged trail run.

Fri - 9k rugged trail run. 40 min kyak on the lake.

Sat - 1k jog, 6.5k trail "race" 27.00 1k jog.

Sun - 3k warmup, very hilly 8k trail race 33.40, 2k warmdown.

Monday I ran the hilly loop I often ruan in summer. It has 3 major uphills of 15-20 mins duration so is a good testing run.

Saturday morning I spent several hours clearing some dumped mattresses from a picturesque area in the Nat Park not far from home. Some d*ck head had tossed 3 mattresses into the rocky stream. It was a hard slog getting them up the steep slope. Also dragged a few large tree limbs across the end of the track to deter future prospective dumpers.

I was a bit battered and bruised after this and I was running late for our club's invitation race.

I didn't get a good warmup. With a 3.2k and 6.5k starting together it was a good size field and I was happy to get shuffled back thru the first 1/2 along a narrow path.

I passed the finish line the first time (3.2k) in 14m. and then strode out thru the 2d 1/2 covering the 3.3k in 13.00.

Sunday's 8k is a brute of a course. There literally is no flat section.

It is actually 4.6kms of uphill and just 3.4kms of (steep) downhills.

I was a bit disappointed in my run at first mainly because Terry my arch O/50 rival gave me a smacking. But the 2 fastest guys who both have recent 33m rd 10ks could only manage to run mid 28s. Terry's 32.50 looks pretty slick in hindsight. He bolted off up the first 2kms of uphill in 8.00 compared to my 8.34. He had close to a minute on me by 1/2 way so I think I was quicker through the 2d 1/2 than he was.

Great race report L2B. Nice to see one of us oldies giving those young'uns some racing lessons.

Thanks for the report lucKY and way to take a W.

Running-wise, just an okay to slightly less than okay week. I had entertained plans of a fall marathon but July has not been a great training month. Clipping along at 50 mpw +/- but coaching obligations and a sore foot have held me back from building up mileage as well as any long runs. 1:45-1:50 have been the longest.

The foot was actually fairly bothersome last week.

45 miles with 5 days running, 2 rollerski workouts and 1 cycling (3 hr total for cross training). I did get in a good tempo, 6.7 miles at 6:10 - 6:25 pace, within a 12 miler on Tuesday but other than that kind of blah and a bit of ouch. Probably going to shift to a 2 or 3 days on, 1 day cross train mode for the next month, with some doubles if I can squeeze in the time.

Cutting back a bit to rest for a half marathon next weekend.

Really saddened to hear about the loss of Pat Porter. He was an icon of an era.

Thanks guys. Not quite as colorful as MG's reports, but I try. :P

AK-yes, I had meant to include that. Very Saddening indeed. Way too soon.

WX, sorry that your PF is still giving you troubles. Look forward to reports from London.....so cool!

mo'pak-not many things piss me off more than dumpers. Kudos to you guys for cleaning up the mess.

Alan B, nice to see you're getting in some long runs. Hope that the ramp up in mileage goes well.

With the delayed broadcasts of the Olympics, it's hard to get on the internet and not have the news spoiled. Kinda makes it hard to get on LetsRun, and enjoy the games.

Such is life.

hi just been away birth of another new grandson toby bradley (named after wiggo) But still got in 41 miles legs sore and stiff back also sore but will still keep on going forward but i dont feel to being flowing as i should! have lost 6lb in wieght which is a plus

Congratulations on the grandchild!

Sore legs could be normal....

Sore back I would be much more cautious about. If you don't do SOMETHING different, I can predict it will get worse. I recommend post-run stretching but others may disagree with me on that. If you decide to stretch, be cautious there too, done incorrectly or aggressively it can cause an injury. If you decide not to stretch, at least do some range-of-motion tests like reaching, to make sure you are not losing flexibility over time.

Yes L2b, way to go with the win!

mo'pak- looks like you probably had too much of a warm up with hauling all that stuff out, the morning of your 1st race!

alf-topper- congrats as well with having another grand child, and the loss of weight. Keep at it and you should get to the point where things flow...at least as much as they can at our age.

I have to stretch certain things or I quickly become a non runner. I find just doing one set of a few weight exercises once or twice a week to be very useful, though I just use dumb bells.

Have managed to keep my mileage up and still get rid of some injuries I been dealing with, and have finally been able to run a few decent workouts in the last 2 weeks.

Looking forward to all that racing over in London!

Alf, Congrats on the new addition to your family tree.

Also, I concur with what Alan B said on the soreness. When I restarted running in the fall after the knee debacle last summer, the lower back was sore for many weeks. It was suggested that tight hamstrings are often a cause of this. When I started do more range of motion kinds of exercises and light stretching of the hamstrings, the problem went away within a week. So that might be a good place to start. It might also help to know a little more detail in how your week's mileage is accumulated....just a thought.

Track and Field (or shall I say "Athletics") starts tomorrow! Woo-hoo!

yes started to stretch just nice and easy i have also heard about the tight hamstrings lower back problems i hit the mileage running every day last week

mon 5 mile

tues 7 mile

wed 4 mile

thurs 7 mile

fri 6 mile

sat 5 mile

sun 7 mile

i do run every day which works for me i never liked missing days back in the day

yes and the athletics starts tomorrow cant wait for the womens 10 km

Week 61: 42 miles in 8 runs (so far), with 2 workouts

Wed: 7 miles with drills, strides, 5x hill

Sat: 11.5 miles slow, with strides

The hill workout is starting to be significant. With the bump in mileage I eased the pace on the long run. Trying not to overdo things, I have a slew of little 1% niggles that need monitoring.

I lucked out yesterday, happened to be near a television during the OG 10,000m. Farah ran like an idiot, but he was ridiculously strong and won it going away. Rupp ran a perfect race for his silver. Sorry I wasn't watching the bronze medalist, T Bekele. Tremendously exciting. Now I'm off to a local running store to see the women's marathon. I expect this race to be fantastic as well. Going to run there and back so that will add another 7 or so to my week's total.