Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

I'm just on my way to the post office to pick up my copy of Almgren .. oh well .. If nothing else it will look good on the shelf and it was fairly cheap

I still haven't gotten around to reading Bakken's english version, but the Norwegian was actually quite good .. Really enjoyed that one.

A podcaster needs to ask him, why two different books, and explain the differences.

I actually think it's similar but opposite - guys like Steve Magness feel threatened because what he sells is a holistic but actually super convoluted approach that accounts for every possible scenario but intended to lead towards elite performance with detailed and individualized coaching.

It threatens his philosophy and livelihood of coaching - the years of information and experience he has collected are made 90% irrelevant by some bloke saying that hobby joggers only need to do these 2 simple things and there's no need to buy all 5 of Magness's books or get a coach and develop an individualized training plan.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/PalladinoPowerProject/posts/4443529929232362

Is this post you are referring to? He seems annoyed about sirpoc's reference to the stryd pod but gives him some props on his expertise.

James Copland’s book, Norwegian Singles Method Subthreshold Running Kept Simple
…is
a good read. Of course, his personal opinion about using Stryd to
execute the concepts in the book is, IMO, BS. But, his approach
to implementing “sweet spot” running, and in particular, his draw on
using his cycling learnings about sweetspot execution and the use of
training load metrics is excellent. His acknowledgement of Dr Coggan’s
work is greatly appreciated.

The Norwegian book is a very nicely done hardcover book in full color that is aimed at regular folks. It has three section one for beginner containing a couch to 5k plan. Then you have an intermediate section, which basically is NSM and finally it has an advanced section with your double threshold sessions and periodization. It finishes with a general advice section on motivation, injury prevention etc.

Great production values and there is no doubt that an editor was involved.

-

The English version has a lot of overlap as far as I know, but the basic and beginner stuff has been removed and more nerdy stuff has been added.

It's an print on demand Amazon book and from based on the reviews of the book Bakken himself might have been the translator and editor ??

It's aimed at people who consider themselves somewhat of a runner themselves and in order to attract more of that crowd it comes with a foreword by our old friend Steve Magness.

I did find this, James handled the situation better than Steve did. WTF!

EDIT: It is in the same thread as my previous post, but comment is further down.

FWIW, I’m not associated with anyone
paid by anyone, and never will as well! The skin in the game, to which
you refer, is my experience with Stryd (backed by scientific
validation) that makes it clearly the best tool for prescribing and
monitoring training intensities. Superior to everything that you have
tried and promote in your book. That’s my skin in the game.

I think the more that NSM reaches gen pop's consciousness (such as appearing on network TV or Amazon Prime channel), it will weed out the bad coaches (hopefully) online, while others will have to adapt and incorporate its principles. Right now it's mainly talked about on LRC and reddit but most in-person convos I've had with runners (at least in Ohio) very few (about 20-25%-ish) people have heard of sweetspot/Norwegian training. And these are runners who have been doing this 10-15 years. Even RW has only mentioned it a few times.

LRC is fun and all but surprisingly not many know about it. Maybe more know about r/artc and r/advancedrunning, but that's it. Even fewer know about r/NorwegianSinglesRun etc.

Steve is a clown. If you tell him Stryd doesn't work, he blocks you. I've tried to have this conversation with him. He will tell you it's user error, which as others have pointed out, is ridiculous, you can't have user error in a power meter. It should just work when you connect it. If you are accepting it could have user error, then it's just a foot pod that's branded cleverly with a few algorithms that may or may not work given the situation of each user in isolation.

Many people would love to make it work accross a wider range of folks, but when you have guys like Steve gaslighting everyone, unfortunately we are never going to make progress on what could be a useful tool to work alongside other metrics. Hills and wind. When you need or want it, the idea of running power falls apart as a usable piece of data for me and I know of many others.

He's one of the strangest men on the internet, for real. Toxic man who lives in an echo chamber where he is like the Reddit Stryd crowd who weirdly will block you or throw you out of the group should you dare to question something that doesn't make sense. It means a lot of the people who have an interest in making it better just dump it in a drawer and give up because of the push back.

He'd never come somewhere like here and have a normal debate and accept the tons of people who have used Stryd, but understand it's limitations and have a normal debate with them on what could be worked on in the future.

The fact people actually buy his cut and paste plans off him is a travesty. He's hurt because, again, he is someone who is totally over complicating things for his own gain. He wants you to buy into his seemingly complicated plans etc (that are really just cut and paste jobs), yet here is a book for the price of a few beers and it'll get you through years until you need to worry about your next move.

He's like a more polished version of JS as a conman.

The one thing NSM has done is stripped smart and effective training with intensity control down to the bare basics and honestly helped expose quite a few of the chancers and charlatans out there. Obviously the other is that it is genuinely helping a demographic of runners (ie most of us in the middle) who have been overlooked in what is useful for us in a long time.

The English version is also more aimed at coaches and sport scientists, specially the later chapters. And it's less of an "how-to" book compared to the Norwegian version. According to one podcast (don't remember which though) he had someone helping him with that version of the book as well.

BTW, I think Chapter 14 "Double Threshold Going Deeper" was particularly great. It would probably be interesting to most NSA runners who want to know more, regardless of the name of that chapter. Most things there applies in some way to singles as well, such as the load equation and why Vo2max doesn't matter much for endurance development if it's reasonably high already.

He couldnt go as much into detail/technicalities in the norwegian book as his publisher didn't think it would fit the market.

Edit: Sorry that was already answered.

When it comes to JI training advice I think he falls into the trap of thinking "wow sweet, cutting my trailing volume by 60-70%? Thats smooth sailing!" without taking into account how fit you got to be to sustain 70km of hard training per week, how much work it takes to get to 100km weeks when your not Jakob Ingebrigtsen and most importantly that you suddenly have 8+ hours of work five days a week which doesnt help with any of the above.

Advanced

Weekly Consultancy for Assistance with Run-Power Assessment & Planning

$714.00 10 /weeks

That is what Steve offers and charges . Sirpoc offers a book based on the exact principles Steve has been now selling, he literally sells power based NSM plans. In fact, the whole NSM is based on adapting sirpoc's own power plans in a plug and play way for 99% of runners without a need for any equipment that may or may not work to shape sessions and balance and manage load.

NSM book is like 15-20 bucks in most currencies. Hence, sirpoc is incredibly bad for Steve's flimsy and ridiculously over priced business model.

714 bucks for 10 weeks? Is it this satire? No wonder he's on tilt lol

I saw he was selling NSM power plans a while back. They just look like what sirpoc posted his cycling time trial training looked like.

steve is a clown, but his marathon plans are excellent. expensive at $75, but a one-time purchase i own for life. screw his nsm plans though. he should have adapted nsm to power for free for his fb group.

for 16 weeks, his marathon plan is:

m: easy
tu: threshold
w: easy
th: threshold
f: easy
sa: lt1 long with mp finish
su: rest

his threshold interval intensities rotate between hmp (1/cycle), 15k (2/cycle), 10k (2/cycle), 5k (1/cycle). every fourth week, you test to check in on your cp, either a 3'/12' test, 20' tt, or 5k race.

between marathon blocks, i am running nsm. during a marathon block, i am executing his plan. the load increases from nsm (7h/wk) while working through the plan (6h/wk to 9h/wk). but i never feel cooked, have not been injured, and it feels like a natural extension of nsm.

Just ask why in the heck needs stryd, if its measuring the power a wind sensor.

Even if you don’t use power there’s other nice things like pace and distance that is more responsive than GPS.

Aren’t you supposed to be in your own thread and not pollute this one?

Well, I wasn't the first one took up here what Jakob told in his new interview and I couldn't resist the opportunity, LoL . 😂

Well, I can understand it's hard for you guys to hear one of the world's best runners tell what I have told at my posts here, well, what I have told all my years at LRC. 🤔😉🧙‍♂️

the wizard is coming on, mates!

DANCAN the Musical coming to Oslo in June — get your tickets now!