Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

it was ~90F on monday so I slowed down my subt reps by about 5 percent and it was manageable hr/breathing wise. I probably should have slowed down even more. I am not looking forward to dealing with heat+humidity in june/july/august so I may bite the bullet and do my subt days at the rec center on the treadmill. easy days i think i can do outside in the heat, I already go very easy.

You can look up how to modify your pace on heat and humidity, either in sirpoc’s Book or with multiple websites online. If you go by heart rate, I haven’t seen a much better strategy than allowing your heart rate to drift up one extra point for every two percentage points pace slows down(i actually do something a bit more complicated). I wouldn’t do sub threshold sessions if conditions suggested that pace should slow by more than 4%. Given the conditions you describe, I would not have done the session and would’ve just run easy or run inside. I agree with the water over the head and given that I have access to a track i bring water bottles. I also make sure that I am well hydrated, which includes having a bit of salt in the diet.

Kofuzi reviewing Chinese shoes. Is he paying for these with Klarna? Have the western brands given up on him?

The triathlete Sam Long lives in arizona and does plenty of his runs in 90+ F heat. I do workouts in 80-90F in the summer and its not a huge issue if you expect to be slower and sweat a lot. Probably keep it under 90 minute though if you don't have water breaks.

I believe the poster said he was from the East Coast. Humidity matters a ton and there’s a huge difference from the East Coast to Arizona

I found Sub-T a lot easier than long runs in very hot summer conditions. I would set up a cooler with ice and a towel in a shady spot with a breeze (or a fan), then between each rep rub myself all over with the iced towel and stick an ice cube in my mouth. Kept the heartrate ever pretty similar to normal. Long (or even continuous easy) runs were brutal though without the stops to cool down.

There’s at least one substantial thread for each of the following: Chinese shoes, running YouTubers more generally, and “ShoeTubers” specifically.

Yet for some reason you decided to post that here.

lol. lmao even.

Hi,

Just wondering if anybody has any rule of thumbs / warning signs they are pushing the Sub-T runs too much. I try to follow the book's recommendation of 4-6 RPE and pace recommendations based off of a recent half marathon. I'm almost always at the 6 effort by the end. And that's when I am running on the slower end of the prescribed paces.

I always have at least another rep or two in me at that effort level. My HR during the cooldown recovers to approximately 70% of MHR. It usually falls back to that 70% in between reps for the first few, but not towards the end of the workout.

I am estimating my LTHR at 175 based off of historic races. My Garmin guestimates at 177. Generally, if I keep my HR under that number during Sub T, am I okay?

Sorry for what is probably a silly question. Thanks in advance. Maybe I am trying to optimize this too much, but I recognize effort control is critical.

I have a book into which I looked but did not detect any rules involving multiple thumbs.

However, I have multiple rules involving a single thumb. And those rules of thumb guide me well in many cases, but not in those related to social graces.

Pease refrain from telling me where to position a thumb — either one or multiple — if you could be so kind.

That should be fine more or less. It's a good idea to be well under LTHR for the first rep and gradually work your way up towards LTHR the final reps. If you're feeling fresh by the time you start the next workout without any soreness, you're doing it right.

I've had plenty of workouts where I briefly touch on or even slightly exceed my LTHR and still feel fine.

Also to be honest, RPE is very subjective. I'd say mine are usually a 6, sometimes 7 but never 4. I haven't missed a day of running in over 7 months and feel great almost every day, so I think its working for me.

Any thoughts on what Jakob recommends for hobby joggers with a weekly mileage of 70-100km:

https://www.instagram.com/runnersnerd/reel/DYmrZkFoaFP/

• I would not be too careful when it comes to intensity.
• Run those 70-100k a little bit harder.
• Never run very slow in easy runs.
• Maybe one threshold workout.
• Maybe with a little bit higher volume, one harder workout and maybe a long run.
• Have fun and don't focus too much on the intensity.

Not sure if the fastest marathoner in their family would follow that approach.

Absolute nonsense. Hopefully nobody listens to this as it's terrible advice. Probably Jakob being told what to say , but I hope nobody thinks he has a clue how a hobby jogger should train. And I'm a massive JI fan. interesting KI bright down intensity and HR touch on his easy runs btw and finally found improvement. Obviously he's still a good way off some of the hobby joggers in this thread, but still it's improving for him.

Going out as a full time dad and "just having fun" would mean probably just about everyone would run too fast and cook themselves. 100km a week is no joke and if you are training that much following something (even if it's not NSM ) is going to be better than this awful advice.

It's a shame the internet, reels etc are full of such terrible training advice.

The only good thing about Steve Palladino's weird character assassination of sirpoc on Facebook is it finally got me round to buying the book, having just been busy doing my own thing after reading this thread 18 months ago.

Incredibly late to the party, but considering Bakken and Almgren have bought out books since - potentially in response - it's remarkable how sirpoc's book holds up and will stand up against just about anything.

Informative, to the point, amusingly absurd at times, whilst also having details and information I was really surprised to find on that level. But at it's heart, something you could recommend to just about any hobby jogger and they'll be something to improve their situation. The pacing chapter was gold.

I think guys like Steve, who I used to listen to - hence i saw the post as I apparently still follow him- are threatened really there's someone out there bringing training to the masses and stopping chancers like him selling cut and paste plan.

It's interesting, these cut and paste grifter types seem most threatened, yet proper coaches seem to see value in applying this to their athletes. NSM is an attack on the chancers, but can help support coaching. I find that interesting. p.s to sirpoc himself and the lads he worked with on it, congrats, great job, it's wild such a book came out of what is essentially just a random thread on one of the most crazy places on the internet.

Couldn't agree more. I think the main reason this thread has been so good and seemingly now just catching up with the book, is at heart it's laid out by someone who not only has fantastic training knowledge, but actually is an a position like most of the rest of us. Not even just having to get up and go to work, fit it around family life - but even stuff like the YouTubers don't need to worry about or being an Ingebrigtsen brother, buying your own shoes, kit, entering races out of your own money. Just because all these things are the case it doesn't mean you can't train properly and control intensity. The idea on 100k a week you should just go out and have fun is absurd.

Haha ... But seriously

Jacob has never participated in a full marathon, but if we compare half marathons then ...

Kristoffer's fastest half is 1:12.

Two days after the Diamond League final in 2024, Jacob ran the Copenhagen half.

Despite blowing up and also throwing up during the race he finished in 1:03, with a 27:27 split on the first 10k ahead of eventual winner Sebastian Sawe

He had fun :D

-

As a hobby jogger .. If not to have fun then why run at all?

Health benefits are maxed out long before you reach 70-100 km.

No offense, but reading online forums you'd almost get the idea that running in reality is just a cheaper alternative to cycling for miserable middle aged men that desperately look for an identity in the midst of their full blown midlife crisis?

-

Have fun might be vastly underrated advice?

The interviewer is the one who came up with the 70-100k mark. You never hear the exact question though, it's just a couple bullet points on the screen. Being asked on the go or on the fly it's basically just a vanilla & safe response he gave. Also I think a lot of runners tend to simplify things for those who are perhaps newer or slower or that we perceive as being less interested than themselves.

Remember that YT video with KI before the marathon & JI came on downplaying the seriousness of his marathon telling KI something like "nobody in the world cares what you're going to run, it's just a hobby. It doesn't matter if you run 2:59 or 2:29 because nobod cares." He found the whole thing "strange" that someone would hobby jog for fun, lol. KI also showed he had a core monitor? for the heat workout they were doing & he told JI to just run by feel since he (JI) is a "professional" & KI is an "amateur."

I have a co-worker running her first 1/2 marathon who asked me for a plan & I basically gave her a similar/vanilla response. Work up to running 3-4x a week & don't bother running more frequently. Don't run not too hard, or too easy, just all moderate runs. 1 long, 1 medium, 1 shorter run & most of all have fun. She asked me about doing some speed stuff & I said, don't bother, you don't have to get that technical.

I think Bakken's book is more a response to Gjert I's comments during the trial on Gjert's "own" training method. It's clear that Bakken got very provoked by that.

Also, needless to say, the books by Sirpoc and Bakken are very different. Both are extremely good, but in their own ways. Reading both will give you a much bigger picture than just reading one of them.

Almgren's book was written because he was asked by a publisher to write a book. IMO, the end product shows that Almgren had no internal drive (specially compared to Sirpoc and Bakken) to write a book.