Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Lol, what a silly question. You don't run 3:46 on only vanilla ice cream.

Just rolling back a few weeks to some of the old timers talking about not having a watch or HR monitor. A couple of posts convinced me the timex is being retired and counting pulses is probably not optimal.

Anyway, I wish I had done this before! Game changer. For anyone else out there stuck in the past, really helps control things so much easier and stress free.

My first dip of the toes into the modern world!

What are you talking about? Watches we have had for many centuries! Lol

Jan?

I can't lie, I don't really know who the guy is but it came up on my Facebook feed randomly yesterday, so I replied. His stuff has popped up a few times, along with the dental athlete and some woman called Elizabeth who runs. I don't know why, I don't actively search for any running content on my Facebook account.

I'm not really sure I understand his position. He seems to be saying I'm disingenuous about what I have said about Stryd. I've only ever posted my own experience of it and that i don't think as a tool for the broadest range of people that it's worth diving into currently. We literally have people using whatever this method is, using a Timex and counting pulses apparently and still being successful.

I mean he is selling basic power plans for running by the looks of it, so I understand that he is invested in running power. Maybe that's why he seems annoyed.

But he seems to think I don't understand power ha ha or it's user error. Which is quite frankly a bit ridiculous, when using power on my bike is probably how I even got to the point where I understood how to train, why I posted here and we are at whatever point this is. When you also consider I used precise power measurements to painstakingly help reduce my CdA in cycling, it's not like i don't understand the value of power. In fact, I probably am the most frustrated out of everyone is doesn't work consistently (every now and again I pop it back on, but the wind / tailwind splits at what should be an even power are still incredibly silly).

I don't buy the user error argument, it should just work when i connect it. Otherwise, whats the point? I don't buy a power meter for a bike and expect to have to fiddle around with it. It just works. Maybe my expectations are too high? My main point being the time you really need power, when it's windy, it doesn't work very well. Most other people with who have critical points with regards to stryd run into the same issue. My runs are on the windier side of most people's experience, that should be noted. But the flip side is when it's not windy, or the controlled conditions of the treadmill, it's value is recuded anyway.

I have no issue with anyone using power by the way, much like I've been using DFA a1, they both fall into the category where the algorithm works well for some people, not for others. The entire idea of me posting was to provide guidelines to the broadest range of people. Bar the legendary timex guys, real time pace and HR probably is good enough to do the job for almost everyone, should you choose to train like this.

By the way if he thinks I am critical of syrydi, he should see some of the posts I've made about poor tymewear (RIP).

You caring about your slow pace is not a push back?

I think this is why you are almost universally respected. You take the time to give your honest feedback about things but don't force your position on anyone. Leave it open to letting people make their own mind up.

You have to remember a guy like Palladino, his entire business revolves around Stryd being the miracle cure to intensity control. Obviously anyone who has had one knows that is a ridiculous position. It can be useful (I use it between treadmills as a fancy foot pod) but in a lot of situations you need or it would be very useful ,as you point out, it breaks down.

I'm sure from what to have said before brands have come to you with stuff to promote and you always say no, be that equipment or shoes or running kit. That puts you in a relatively unique position of having a truly independent voice and seem to just genuinely want to help people. Probably the most zero marketing campaign or pushing of even your own book.

What would you say are the 3-4 most useful things it gives you that you can't realistically do without one?

As someone who trains in Oklahoma, I find power to be very helpful on the mornings I will be dealing with tough spring weather. This morning will be 75f with a dewpoint of 70f and winds at 17 gusting to 25. I drive to a local park to run because it's much to hilly around my home for anything over 3 minutes. Given the variables of heat, humidity, and strong gusty winds on a loop course, It's easier for me to aim for a power target and keep an eye on RPE during the workout. As a former Florida state champion cycling time trialist nearly 20 years ago, I understand your frustration with running power. Even 20 years ago it was excellent on the bike, but it's still too stochastic for typical running training. However, on days like today it is accurate enough to keep me from overcooking my intervals in the rotten weather. It definitely smooths out my effort on the headwind tailwind transitions, so maybe I'm one of the lucky few who it seems to be more consistent for, even if not perfect.

Also coming from a cycling background. I get incredibly frustrated with running power. A lot of people have to chase it to make it work and that shouldn't be the case. I imagine there are lots of them sat idle in drawers people have just forgotten about and given up, for every person it seems to work well for.

I also suffer hugely with the algorithm with strong winds. Goes without saying you don't have this issue with cycling power. I actually think it should be held to this standard, I don't think that it's unreasonable to hold it to that considering it's calling itself a "power" meter.

I would also add, I use it for when I travel and jump on treadmill to treadmill for calibration. It's pretty good at that. But, that's also just really a footpod I would argue.

Steve is a very strange guy. I once tried to read one of his papers but it's clear he's got an overinflated sense of self importance and quite frankly a lot of it was so confusing and poorly written, it gave me a headache. I'm not actually sure he understands NP or what it even means. You have to remember he is selling absolutely basic plans for overinflated prices. So anything he says you have to remind yourself of that in context.

Btw, for sirpoc. I think we are maybe out of the beta testing for Tymewear. It's improved, but still not up to some of their claims. Placement and tightness of the strap needs to be replicated exactly each time which is trickier than it sounds, even with the placement clips. I also have huge concerns over the strain guage. I've used it a fair bit but nowhere near as much as would be reasonable for it to give up.

My main issue with those guys is they charged a silly amount for it and the software and in built algorithms were not fit for purpose on release.

I still don't think it's worth buying and once mine is finished I won't replace it.

For the sake of my sanity I'll choose to believe this was downvoted because of the condescending way you wrote this and not that 6 people believe you can run 3:46 with no speed work....

Wait, people actually buy those plans? Surely not? This is a genuine question. I just always he assumes he was the power version of Jan, making wild claims and pretending to understand things he doesn't really.

Stryd is OK. It's a tool. I find I rarely have use for it now. I certainly don't think the average person should even worry about it let alone shape their whole training around it, especially when it's hit and miss.

The problem is the users it works spot on for, then just assume everyone else is an idiot. I fail to see how you can have user error in a power meter though lol

My main issue is different to others, shoes make a huge amount of difference or even the type of laces used on the shoe, means I can't get it in the correct placement to get consistent data. It's ridiculous to even have to type that but that's an genuine issue for me.

Palladino is an ex-elite runner-turned-cyclist who was the first to translate power-based training principles from cycling to running. He knows his sh*t.

"Sweetspot" training is a power-based concept.

Surely there must be a way to measure respiration that works consistently. Something you wear like a headset mic or clip onto your lip or throat, or a very permeable mask, that measures frequency/volume of exhalations. Maybe it's easy in the lab but just very hard in the windy real world. A collar with a mic that can hear breathing in the windpipe? Come on, boffins, sort it out.

Good luck getting accurate power measurements for running.

But using power, 87-94% of FTP isn't a narrow range?

His background doesn't matter. He's bought into something so he can sell "power" plans. There is no such thing as running power in a true sense. Deep down he knows this. I say that also as someone that finds it useful at times. But you'd be pretty stupid to use it exclusive of all the other data. Whereas if I was just cycling, it's probably all you need to worry about.

One thing I will admit, he's a great salesman and has convinced a lot of people running power is some sort of holy grail it's clearly not.

Objectively his opinion is that he needs to declare an interest every time he speaks as it's usually to fit his agenda, in that he wants to sell you "power" plans. There's nothing wrong with that, if there's a market good luck to him. But he's insanely biased on this subject and it's almost impossible to have a rational conversation with him.