"Dr" rjm 33, Renato is not very quiet when you try to manipulate the facts, for showing your thesis are right, and you are not able to answer some questions.
We can discuss the reason because something happens, not the FACT itself.
You say, for example, that there are two explanations for the FACT Gelindo Bordin won Olympics with 12.8 Hb and 39.7 Hct. Each of the two explanations include blood manipulation, but in this case the only manipulation is YOUR manipulation of the reality, which is :
GELINDO BORDIN, WITHOUT ANY BLOOD MANIPULATION, WON OLYMPIC MARATHON WITH 39.7 HCT AND 12.8 HB.
I like to see your SCIENTIFIC explanation about this is possible, according to your "scientific" knowledge, and your 6000 test of hematocrit. And don't try to explain with some EXTERNAL factor : this was a product of training only.
Other thing is about top Kenyan and Ethiopian athletes.
You try to confuse people, speaking about a "separate species of human being". Top athletes are not a separate species of human being, but the variations inducted in their physiology by their training make them a "special subject" to investigate DEPENDING ON THEIR TRAINING.
So, you again make confusion between the physiology of normal people, doing normal activity, and the physiology of talented people, training at maximal level as volume and as intensity. Why do you think top athletes can run so fast ? Because they have more talent than normal people, like me or you. And why the same talented athlete run slower when not in training, and faster when is well trained ? Because training gives stimuli to the body, and the reaction of the body to those stimuli produces variations in the normal physiological parameters.
You seem to think that this variation doesn't exist, or the level of this is neglectible, giving credit for all the improvements to doping only.
It's clear that you don't have any clue about training and methodology, the same that happens with the most part of physiologists who don't have any idea about training and its effects.
You think to use irony, but are only pathetic when you don't respect FACTS.
You continue to lie, when say that I said Conconi was a minor figure in Italy.
I never said this : I pointed out that many Italian athletes refused to go to Conconi (who had a specific contract with CONI), and had top results (Bordin, Panetta, Mei, Lambruschini, Belmondo), while other went to Conconi, and had top results (Cova, Dorio, Di Centa).
Somebody went Conconi till 1985, and had BETTER results after quitting any blood manipulation (Antibo). Somebody else went ONE TIME ONLY to Conconi, and had the worse competition of his life, immediately quitting to go with him (Maurizio Damilano).
Your irony about the 26 italian athletes involving in the lack of updates about their whereabouts is completely stupid, since you don't know exactly FACTS at the base of the situation.
When you speak about Baldini, you don't know anything about his training, his life, his mentality, his talent, his motivation, his "cleaness", but you like to speak confusing people, using the advantage of your English mother tongue, that allows you to be "ironic" while, for example, sometimes I don't understand your "double senses".
I don't have anybody to defend here, and I like to say the truth, and what I really think. So, when I say Schwazer won Olympics "clean" and with almost the same values of Bordin, I KNOW HE WAS CLEAN AND I KNOW HIS VALUES. But also WADA knows his values, SUPPOSING IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE TO WIN WITH THEM, SO HE ALREADY HAD TO BE DOPED....
Once again, there is NO KNOWLEDGE about what happens with training.
The case of Schwazer can be very illustrative, now. He started training again, chosing as coach one of the main collaborators of WADA : Sandro Donati, Always in first line fighting against doping, who is one believing that EPO can give big advantages. Now, Schwazer has blood test almost every week, and his consultant for hematology is prof. D'Onofrio, one of the max experts about blood and blood manipulation. SO, I SUPPOSE EVERYBODY CAN THINK HE IS CLEAN.
Maybe that Schwazer can walk, now, fast as before, or maybe faster, we wait and see. If this happens, can Donati still think EPO can give so much advantage ? And if Donati, having this idea for 40 years, has to understand that this is not true, all the other people, including some WADA scientist, who had the same certainty, can now change their mind ?
Wait, and see.