50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

LucKY2b -- glad your knee is better!

I've enjoyed reading the July 4th race reports, and realized I hadn't written in a while -- since long about my 5K race series in April / May. I've been trying to do the hills and drills you all recommended :-)

First weekend in June I ran the Steamboat Half Marathon, and ran a decent 1:35 (temps 40's at the start to 70's). Two weeks later I tried to run another one near Boulder. It was hot and smoky (temps 70's at the start to high 80's, and it got to 100 later that day) and I was a little tired and didn't pace right -- I stopped sweating at 9 miles and started getting chills at 10 miles. You can predict the rest ... after running a couple of 7:30's at the start, my 12th mile was over 10 minutes! Did some of that walk-in-the-shade-jog-in-the-sun stuff. Yikes. Ended up with a 1:43, which was better than I deserved. Felt sick for the rest of the day, which IS what I deserved. If I had started at 8:00's, would I have been able to maintain that pace, and not felt so awful toward the end???

So the next weekend I hopped into a 10K in Steamboat, mostly to get a tempo run in (because I am lazy and don't like speed work). Ran a 44:25, but the important thing is that I ran a downhill well! I have a history of passing people on the uphill, and then they all pass me on the downhill. It was an out and back course, with a pretty good uphill between 2.5 and the halfway point. So I passed a few people on the uphill, and then at the turnaround I ran as hard as I could to keep them all from passing me again! And I did okay (okay meaning the 3 girls I passed on the way up did not pass me again).

So that was Sunday. Monday I ran 3 miles EZ and Tuesday I ran 2 miles EZ, just in case I got the chance to race Wednesday. On Wednesday (July 4th), I was volunteering for a local race, and I got a little time off my volunteer duties to run it. I did 20:18 for a 5K, which I was happy about. I was running watchless, and was running by feel, which is a weird experience! I think part of the reason I ran well was because I knew almost all the volunteers and that gave me extra inspiration -- it was fun to see them along the course. And it was a fast course. Thursday I hiked about 4 miles with my husband and dog. Friday I ran about 8 1/2 miles of trails. Saturday I hiked a couple more miles.

Today my friend dragged me along for a 10-mile trail run. Pretty much 5 miles up, and 5 miles back down. She's stronger than me, so it was a good challenge. She's a good downhill runner too, so I got to work on my downhill running again. Good for the EPIC Relay coming up, from Canon City to Crested Butte.

So my mileage was low this week (30), but 2 races. Next race is the relay in 2 weeks.

Happy running to you all. Don't get over-heated!

K

A few posts ago someone mentioned how we runners have a warped view of considering ourselves "fat." I have had the view that I would run so much better if I were lighter, but being a sprinter I can carry more weight than a distance runner. I prefer to think of myself as "solid."

Distance runners are gazelles; I'm more of a pit bull.

Having said that, I just finished 2 weeks of forced rest. I had twisted my knee coming off a hurdle and strained my popliteus muscle. Then I got a nasty head cold. Nothing to do but wait it out. I ran my first workout this morning, and after spending an extra long time on a thorough warmup I surprised myself with some pretty decent sprinting. I did 8 x 150m buildups, then 4 x 80m at approx. 80% to 90% effort. By then it was getting darn hot so I called it a successful morning and treated myself to a Starbucks iced coffee. The masters national championship meet lies ahead! Less than a month to go.

Alan Bennet wrote:

I am not setting the world on fire here, but these track races are fun! It's all new, spectating is a treat, and it's so much better knowing I am in one of the events. Getting a little worried though, as I have started eyeing the hurdles....

Give the hurdles a try Alan....they are TONS of fun!

just started my 3rd week of running aim to hit 40 mile

40? Surely you mean 40 miles for all three weeks. 40 mpw is a good volume for the second *year* of running. When I have been off for some years, I take maybe 6 months to build to about 30 mpw. The first month is just walking. The second month is run-walk. The third month is running, 15 mpw tops. The risk of stress fractures peaks at 5 months (per Noakes). Ligaments and tendons are at risk any time after age 40 (per me).

Why hurry? You will be doing this the rest of your life, a month or two more on the front end is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Alan Bennet wrote:

40? Surely you mean 40 miles for all three weeks. 40 mpw is a good volume for the second *year* of running. When I have been off for some years, I take maybe 6 months to build to about 30 mpw. The first month is just walking. The second month is run-walk. The third month is running, 15 mpw tops. The risk of stress fractures peaks at 5 months (per Noakes). Ligaments and tendons are at risk any time after age 40 (per me).

Why hurry? You will be doing this the rest of your life, a month or two more on the front end is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Although we all progress at different rates, my experience was much like Alan's. I found that I could not up my mileage that quickly without hurting myself. When I restarted running at age 45, I didn't get to averaging 40 mpw until my third year of running. The problem was that my muscles and lungs could adapt more quickly that my tendons, ligaments, and the bones, therein lied the rub.

Also, OMG, glad to hear from you. Looks like you've had some good and not-so-good experiences. It's hard to tell ourselves that we should not try to finish something that we've started, but if you stop sweating....there really can be no positive outcome by keeping going. Truth be told, I probably would have been just as stubborn. I'm very glad that episode wasn't worse than it was!

i do go out every day so then it becomes only 6mile a day my aim is to run a 10k in dec

Getting in shape during my 40s seemed to take quite awhile, and I was much more careless about taking it slow. It takes even longer in the 50s, but that's just seemingly how it goes.

It's now heating up on the West coast, but where I'm at we don't normally have much humidity, so it's much more tolerable than other parts of the country.

Ran 17:34 in a 3 mile XC race last week. Raced all out, and don't think I could have dropped another second, time wise. Was happy to have no lower calf issues this time. This series will go for 6 more weeks on the same course. I plan to race it a couple more times and tempo it the other times. It's a really fun series, even though I hate racing hills.

I figured I wouldn't change your mind, I was just performing my civic duty. Let us know how the training goes.

Alan,

As we all know, we all respond differently. Personally, taking a year plus to work up to 40 mpw seems extreme to me, but that is me. Some should take longer. I don't think that I could do it in 3 weeks but given 12 after inactivity I would have no problems. I tend to agree with Lucky regarding the tendons/ligaments taking a beating, but I am not so sure that is not simply a factor of age and time. Even after years of running I think we can all remember how many times we have personally or known someone have an achilles problem. Seems to be more frequent with our age group.

Alan,

I am coming back after 7 or so years off. Would you share a bit more about your coming back when off for a few years? I get walking, then run/walk but could you tell me where you start in minutes of each run/walking and what the progression is normally. I have started with 2:00run/3:00walk X 6 but may biting off too much too soon. Any help is greatly appreciated.

To more effectively describe your training, it would be better to state that your 'tendons, ligaments and bones are the limiting factor'.

I'm a 56 year old runner whose run 80000 miles since 1977...I can only get in 30/35 a week now and I've slowed down an incredible amount....

I moved to Phoenix from Indiana last November in order to take a sick wife to Barrow Neurological Institute and then went to my first Coyotes hockey game..got hooked, bought 22 partial season ticket, started going to Diamonback games by driving from Mesa to Sycamore ands Main and taking the light rail to Chase Field to watch the Diamonbacks, got blown away by what pro ball parks loo like, bought season tickets...

tried to fit in workouts while caregiving a wife with brain cancer and dementia and spending 1500 bucks a month for someone to sit with my wife while I go to all these games......

I think my focus has changed.

Scott, I agree that the length of time to build up mileage is highly variable. I depends on how long its been since you previously ran, what your other lifestyle activities are, how injury prone you tend to be....so it could be as short as 12 weeks for someone that hasn't been away from running too long and maintains an active lifestyle. But if you've been away for a long time (a decade or more) because you were sidelined as a result of persistent tendinitis that took years to heal, you can understand how one might take a much more cautious approach when reentering the running arena.

Sure. That's a more straight-forward statement.

Running helps me cope with the stresses in my life. If it's not bringing balance to your life, there's no shame in saying it's no longer working for you. Life's priorities should always take precedence. God bless.

thank you i have misled you to call it running? well jogging and walking more like it but i am and will stick to it in hope that the walking will get less and jogging turns to running.upto about 50yrs old i was fit but the last 5yrs i have gone down hill as i said gave up running 20 odd years ago just want to run 10 mile under 65min maybe 1 hour but that could be a tall order but will keep you up to speed.

Cottonwood Trail wrote:

I have started with 2:00run/3:00walk X 6 but may biting off too much too soon.

This is so interesting! When I was rehabbing my most recent injury I ran with the run/walk section of my training group. I would let them pull ahead, then run to catch up, then walk until they got some distance ahead, catch up again, etc. It wasn't until the very end of the second run with them that I realized they were timing the run/walk segments at 4:00run/1:00walk. I never did a run/walk as "intervals" before, and find the idea a little unnatural. I did one more session with them, this time keeping to their timed segments, and then switched out of the run/walk. It's just not the way I want to do a run/walk.

Here is how I have done "my" beginning progression three times in my life.

The walking part is strictly figuring out some routes and carving the time out of the week. I like 3 miles x 4 days, but the idea is to do the same number of days that I will run, while making it easy to get out the door. I don't even need to change clothes, just put on the sneakers and go. Right now I am building a habit. After a month of that the body is itching to go.

For the run/walk part, I keep the same routes and days. The difference is that I begin with walking for one mile and then I RUN until I can't run any more. I mean run FAST, not a jog. I might make it a mile, I might not, at this stage it doesn't matter. I don't run until I faint, I run until I don't want to run anymore. When that thought comes up "I'm tired", that's it. However far I made it running, I just finish up the three miles with walking. Every day out I try to make it just a bit farther than last time. I keep going with the run/walk like that until I can make it two miles running. In the past that has taken about a month. I don't think it matters how long it takes. The point is to progress naturally.

Once I can walk one mile, run two miles, it's time to run the whole three. The big difference here is that there's no going back. "I'm tired" doesn't matter, there's no walking! That means pacing from the start of the run. It means going a little slower than I have been, running in control and not getting out of breath. I keep at my routes until they are not challenging. Again about a month, more or less.

At this stage there are so many ways to progress, I'll leave it to your imagination.

Now to your question about too much too soon: Perhaps the problem is that you are doing what the watch says, and not what your legs say.

Scott Dye wrote:

Personally, taking a year plus to work up to 40 mpw seems extreme to me, but that is me. Some should take longer.

I agree, some quicker, some slower. I think the key is to safely get past the 5-month hump that Noakes identifies. Going just from memory here, he says that heart and lungs respond to training in about a month, muscles start adapting in a couple months, but the bones are different. They initially start building capillaries therefore becoming less dense and actually weaker. It isn't until after five months that they START becoming more dense at which time the risk of stress fractures STARTS to diminish. The problem is that as soon as the heart, lungs and muscles began feeling great, the typical runner aleady ramped up the mileage like crazy. Since the recovery time from a stress fracture is 6 weeks, I think it makes sense to be conservative and add a couple months to the ramp-up, letting all the body systems adapt.

Tendons and ligaments are a whole other story. As you suggest, injuries are bound to happen, it may not have much to do with mileage. Speedwork or wild & crazy cross-training are what do it for me.

In my own experience, it is harder on the body to go from 25 mpw to 35 mpw, than it is to go from 45 mpw to 55 mpw. The 40 mpw for a second year runner is not my number, that was a recommendation for young runners, maybe a high school sophomore, maybe younger. My own second year mileages have been 20 mpw (low), 25 mpw (reasonable), and 45 mpw (high). Based on that experience I think 40 is a solid number. We are talking average over 52 weeks, not peak single week. That's 2,080 miles, which is respectable in any log.

thanks for bring to my notice the point about the slow time it takes for the bones to get upto speed with the rest of your body.i am just going of memory how i started to run in the mid 70s that was walk and then run as fast and as long you can but then i was 20years old

anyone else willing to share strategies for building back after a long break, as in several years?