Sub 1:50 800m Training

800 enthusiast wrote:

This seems like a good thread to link this article from an old (2002) British Milers Club newsletter. "Optimum Speed Distribution in 800 meters and Training Implications". It starts on the third page of the PDF file, though the page itself is labelled "1".

Good read, talks about the different energy systems, and how one should race and train in light of knowing about the energy systems.

http://www.britishmilersclub.com/bmcnews/2002autumn.pdf

There is a flaw in this analysis of the energy systems. You cannot simply analyze the energy systems used by the time. The effort also makes a huge difference. We can't assume that the first 200m of an 800m is anything close to full out, so we can't assume we know the percentage of anaerobic/aerobic. It actually will depend upon pace/speed reserve.

If I sprint full out for 20 seconds, it is mostly anaerobic; if I walk for 20 seconds, it is mostly aerobic. Sub-maximal running will be somewhere in between.

bump

is OldSub4 still out there and would he be interested in creating a training program for a post-collegiate runner?

I don't know if OldSub4 is still out there. Its been years since this posting was started. I'm sipmly amazed at how long this thread has lasted.

OldSub4

I'm sort of training my kid, a talented youth runner.

If you're still around or checking these boards, I'd love to pick your brain. I know you said you aren't an expert on kids, but I'd like to ask you what are the most valuable sessions at various stages of the season for a younger runner on more limited training.

hey......karma police. just cant help you. i really dont think kids under 14 should be training much. they dont have the endocrine system to hypertroyphy...

Karma Police wrote:

OldSub4

I'm sort of training my kid, a talented youth runner.

If you're still around or checking these boards, I'd love to pick your brain. I know you said you aren't an expert on kids, but I'd like to ask you what are the most valuable sessions at various stages of the season for a younger runner on more limited training.

bump

check out this thread...full training plan for a sub 3.39 1500 runner from september till july

OldSub4 if you are still out there I could use your help. I'm a college freshman at a school with no Men's track team and I've decided to make a come back to track. Last year I had a break out year in the 800 dropping from a 2:23ish PB junior year to a 2:03 PB with a race ending injury my peak race I also have a 54 high 400m best but with zero speed training. I also had a mid season illness that caused me to miss a lot of workouts that along with only running around 40 mpw makes me really wonder what I am capable of in the 800. My coach told me he wished I failed my final exams so he could have me another year lol. Any way I've read and recorded every single one of your posts on training and am looking for a plan of attack to run as an unattached runner in next years track season. I haven't ran consistently since June and am looking to do well at my old xc teams alummni 5k race in August then focus 100% on the 800 for next spring.......any advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm without a coach

Karma Police wrote:

OldSub4

I'm sort of training my kid, a talented youth runner.

If you're still around or checking these boards, I'd love to pick your brain. I know you said you aren't an expert on kids, but I'd like to ask you what are the most valuable sessions at various stages of the season for a younger runner on more limited training.

Having some personal experience with my own kid in this area, I'd be happy to offer my two cents worth, if you'd care to define 'talented' and 'youth'.

Someone can look at this training program geared for 800/400 runner (running 400's early season - moving up to 800 after july/june)

Been injured a lot but have been running injury free last 6 months, competing in some 400's in 52 sec and following my training partner in group on the 3x3x200 session in 26-28 s, he has 1:53 high 800 form righ now.

What does this program need? Dont know about some long tempo runs as I am not targeting the 800 later in the season.

Saturday

Hill session (alternating short/long hills each week) - drills - strides ex 4-6x100-150

Sunday

50-60 min long run

Monday

AM 20-30 min easy - drills - strides + sprint ex 8x100 + 4x60 starting blocks

PM 35 min incl 20-25 min tempo

Tuesday

Session specific to season, ex now indoor 800/400: 3x3x200 26-28 s

Wednesday

35-40 min - drills - strides ex 3-6x150

Thursday

AM 20-30 min easy - drills - strides ex some 150's 50 sprint/50 float/50 sprint

PM Short tempo 5 k or 150-200's strides with float/sprint in - sprints ex 3x3x60 full recovery

Weights/strength 2x week Saturday/Monday

Circuit 1x week Wednesday

Oops - I am targeting 400 early season / 800 mid-late season

Lydiard is God wrote:

Karma Police wrote:

OldSub4

I'm sort of training my kid, a talented youth runner.

If you're still around or checking these boards, I'd love to pick your brain. I know you said you aren't an expert on kids, but I'd like to ask you what are the most valuable sessions at various stages of the season for a younger runner on more limited training.

Having some personal experience with my own kid in this area, I'd be happy to offer my two cents worth, if you'd care to define 'talented' and 'youth'.

Youth is turning 15. Still coming out of puberty, so still growing.

Talented is high 52s for 400, 2.01 for 800 and 4.15 for 1500. Only training 4-5 times a week.

And by the way, I don't necessarily agree that Lydiard is god, just so that's out there;)

I'm sure Lydiard is not THE God, just a god.

Funnily enough, my kid is also turning 15 this year. Not as fast as yours-400 55.00, but has done 2:02.15 and 4:14.30 (rather windy, the following day).

I'm in the Southern Hemisphere, and in the middle of work, so just wanted to fire off a quick reply. One of my observations is that there needs to be enough 'base' to make best use of the speedwork. And, yes, you can do speedier workouts all year, as long as their volume and intensity is matched to how much fitness you have under your belt. Since my lad is not a natural speedster (but not exactly slow), I am a big fan of 10x30-40m all-out sprints with full recovery to give him the experience of really moving fast with efficiency. This can be done year-round.

Hope to hear some more from you. Perhaps a new thread aimed at their age-since they're not going sub 1:50 anytime soon!

When you say my kid, do you mean your son, or a kid you coach? Or both?

If you need a base to do that sort of speed work, what do the 14-15yo sprinters do? They don't get a base before doing a session like that, or at least not an aerobic base.

I also asked you a question about slow and fast twitch fibres in the kids mileage thread. And it's a genuine question too. I'm no expert.

Find a track club, and a coach --too hard to do the training in alone. Find a nearby High School and offer to be an assistant coach and train with the team. Get yourself a good set up, the basic training progression is all in that thread, along with more training journals that are being printed

...and just like that, he appears...welcome back, OS4.

Time for a bump

I have been stuck at 1:50.low for 2 years now. My 400m pr is 48.1, 600m pr is 1:19.low and and my 1k pr is 2:27.0 (of which I have only ran 1 time). I ran 1:49 once but I kind of think it was a fluke kind of a day. I am looking for training advice, and seeing how it is already the end of March, possibly something I could incorporate knowing the peak of my season will be in about a month and a half. My normal week looks like this:

Sunday-

6-8 miles easy

Monday-

am - weights (power clean, hang snatch, split jerk)

pm - 3-4 miles easy

Tuesday-

3x1.5 miles or 2x2miles @ 5-515 min/mi pace

Wednesday-

am - weights (back squat, hang clean)

pm - 3-4 miles easy

Thursday-

4x800 @ 2:10-2:15 pace

Friday-

3-4 miles easy

Saturday

6-8 miles hard (6min/mile or faster)

Thanks.