Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

1(*_*)1 wrote:

unbelief wrote:

As usual your terminology has strayed a bit from accepted understanding.

Essays? I guess once again we can leave it up to others who’s more voracious in their desperation and vanity to be taken seriously here.

Yes, you should be prioritizing HR over power, especially in running. And the correlation between lactate and HR is pretty well established when you know what you’re doing.

Again, ill leave it up to others as to whether you’re worth listening to or not, not concerned either way.

You’re not contributing other than to the noise at this point. The premise, again, was a simple one, but you are trying to overcomplicate very simple guidelines to attempt to toot some horn you think needs to be played.

Just another person whining about others not adhering to their ‘wisdom’, its a pretty old tune in this thread

I mean you can try to leave it up to your fallacious attempt at a popularity contest that is neither here nor there, yet the fact remains that the boundary between the heavy and the severe domain is literally defined based on the power/speed duration model or maximal lactate steady state. There is little to no evidence supporting the validity of instead defining it using heart rate and it's absurd for you to claim that it is more valid than the others when any rational person can recognize the major issues that it has, issues that you promptly ignored with the only justification being your rather ignorant opinion.

Your post is especially ironic, alleging that I'm overcomplicating it when you're inordinately supporting using HR over RPE which is by far the simplest way to produce a constant sub-threshold effort and it does not require using any tools. What I'm saying, and what everyone should be able to agree with in principle, is that if you're going to bother to try to quantify your "threshold", you should try to be as accurate as possible otherwise it's a waste of time and you're back to guessing.

1(*_*)1 wrote:

Hereweeeegoooooo wrote:

I think you're just tilting at windmills.

My zones are the exact opposite of arbitrary. I've tested myself seven ways to Sunday and I know my physiology extremely well. You keep banging about using RPE....how do we get record intrasession RPE on a second by second basis? Tell me, please, I want to know. HR is a proxy for RPE, right? That's why we use it.

It's cute you're already backtracking. Say I'm a brand new runner, I did one 30 minute test and I found that over 10-30 minutes my LTHR was 180 bpm. How do I now delineate my zones based on the actual boundaries between the exercise domains when they are still a complete unknown and are not by any means represented by heart rate?

Spoilers, I can't and it's impossible because HR isn't a valid measure of threshold effort regardless of how many data points you can get from it. You can call this pedantic but it's not at all.

1(*_*)1 wrote:

It would be the mean value obtained from 10-30 minutes during that specific test, nothing more, nothing else. Clearly for much of the test I would be over 180 bpm yet I still managed to run for 30 minutes at a constant pace so I can reasonably infer that I was at or below threshold for nearly all of it unless I somehow have a ridiculous amount of W'.

So how do I now use LTHR to define where my actual threshold is when it has already been disassociated from lactate and power, any idea of quasi steady state, and the most accurate way to quantify threshold? Is 185 bpm still under threshold, what about 190 bpm? How isn't that completely arbitrary? What if I want to run for 1 hour and I'll have more drift? How is that any better than RPE if not substantially worse?

It's stupid to think that RPE can even be dissociated from anything when it's how we run before anything else. It doesn't matter what I tell you your critical power is, if you don't feel like you can manage it, you won't. Humans intuitively understand approximately where their threshold is and anything hoping to hone in on it better be damn accurate in order to provide actionable information. If you ever take HR over RPE, you put the cart in front of the horse.

Hereweeeegoooooo wrote:

1(*_*)1 wrote:

It would be the mean value obtained from 10-30 minutes during that specific test, nothing more, nothing else. Clearly for much of the test I would be over 180 bpm yet I still managed to run for 30 minutes at a constant pace so I can reasonably infer that I was at or below threshold for nearly all of it unless I somehow have a ridiculous amount of W'.

So how do I now use LTHR to define where my actual threshold is when it has already been disassociated from lactate and power, any idea of quasi steady state, and the most accurate way to quantify threshold? Is 185 bpm still under threshold, what about 190 bpm? How isn't that completely arbitrary? What if I want to run for 1 hour and I'll have more drift? How is that any better than RPE if not substantially worse?

It's stupid to think that RPE can even be dissociated from anything when it's how we run before anything else. It doesn't matter what I tell you your critical power is, if you don't feel like you can manage it, you won't. Humans intuitively understand approximately where their threshold is and anything hoping to hone in on it better be damn accurate in order to provide actionable information. If you ever take HR over RPE, you put the cart in front of the horse.

Ooooof. You're making things harder for yourself.

1(*_*)1 wrote:

Hereweeeegoooooo wrote:

No backtracking. What unknowns are you talking about? If the test was performed well, then the average HR for the last 20 minutes is the "upper value" for threshold efforts. How hard is that? We're discussing MLSS, LT2 and "subthreshold" efforts.

It would be the mean value obtained from 10-30 minutes during that specific test, nothing more, nothing else. Clearly for much of the test I would be over 180 bpm yet I still managed to run for 30 minutes at a constant pace so I can reasonably infer that I was at or below threshold for nearly all of it unless I somehow have a ridiculous amount of W'.

So how do I now use LTHR to define where my actual threshold is when it has already been disassociated from lactate and power, any idea of quasi steady state, and the most accurate way to quantify threshold? Is 185 bpm still under threshold, what about 190 bpm? How isn't that completely arbitrary? What if I want to run for 1 hour and I'll have more drift? How is that any better than RPE if not substantially worse?

It's stupid to think that RPE can even be dissociated from anything when it's how we run before anything else. It doesn't matter what I tell you your critical power is, if you don't feel like you can manage it, you won't. Humans intuitively understand approximately where their threshold is and anything hoping to hone in on it better be damn accurate in order to provide actionable information. If you ever take HR over RPE, you put the cart in front of the horse.