Let's end the mileage debate once and for all

Exceptions do not prove the rule. wrote:

Truce Bulloh wrote:

Bruce Tulloh himself said that he later doubled his mileage but could never improve on his times.

Exceptions do not prove the rule. Besides, you should've went with someone with a faster PB like Doug Padilla. Who ran 13:15 5000 off of just 50-60 MPW. Even in this context, Doug ran 30 odd seconds faster than Bruce who only did 30 MPW, which I leave what you conclude from that.

PS. Bruce did not make the 1960 Olympic 5000 finial and the person won won it was Murray Halberg.

Bruce Tulloh couldn't beat his 13.49 when he doubled his mileage to 60MPW. I therefore conclude that Doug was naturally faster!

Not sure the relevance of your last line?

If 30MPW was good enough for Bruce Tulloh to run 13.49 then its more than enough for you to earch whatever goal you have?

Bruce Tulloh trained very differently to almost every poster in the entire history of letsrun.

Large volume of Interval training Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Raced almost every Saturday, Long run Sunday.

Week in, week out for years.

The mileage debate will never end.

Kind of like this thread.

Truce Bulloh wrote:

Exceptions do not prove the rule. wrote:

Exceptions do not prove the rule. Besides, you should've went with someone with a faster PB like Doug Padilla. Who ran 13:15 5000 off of just 50-60 MPW. Even in this context, Doug ran 30 odd seconds faster than Bruce who only did 30 MPW, which I leave what you conclude from that.

PS. Bruce did not make the 1960 Olympic 5000 finial and the person won won it was Murray Halberg.

Bruce Tulloh couldn't beat his 13.49 when he doubled his mileage to 60MPW. I therefore conclude that Doug was naturally faster!

Not sure the relevance of your last line?

If 30MPW was good enough for Bruce Tulloh to run 13.49 then its more than enough for you to earch whatever goal you have?

What if I want to run faster than 13:49? And what percent of people who have ran 13:49 only ran 30 MPW? He is what you would call a outlier. I wouldn't base my training on a outlier.

Truce Bulloh wrote:

Exceptions do not prove the rule. wrote:

Exceptions do not prove the rule. Besides, you should've went with someone with a faster PB like Doug Padilla. Who ran 13:15 5000 off of just 50-60 MPW. Even in this context, Doug ran 30 odd seconds faster than Bruce who only did 30 MPW, which I leave what you conclude from that.

PS. Bruce did not make the 1960 Olympic 5000 finial and the person won won it was Murray Halberg.

Bruce Tulloh couldn't beat his 13.49 when he doubled his mileage to 60MPW. I therefore conclude that Doug was naturally faster!

Not sure the relevance of your last line?

If 30MPW was good enough for Bruce Tulloh to run 13.49 then its more than enough for you to earch whatever goal you have?

Murray was a Lydiard athlete. Bruce could not make it through the rounds at the Olympics, I wonder why?

Stop saying Farah has 12.9 100m speed. This is just wrong. He’s closed races in 50-52. He clearly has faster 100m speed.

Similar with that single Euro indoor race of Ingebrigtsen vs. Lewandowski. It is a flawed data point.

Dhdhejrj wrote:

Stop saying Farah has 12.9 100m speed. This is just wrong. He’s closed races in 50-52. He clearly has faster 100m speed.

Similar with that single Euro indoor race of Ingebrigtsen vs. Lewandowski. It is a flawed data point.

Correct! He even finished in interval training with a 49 sec 400m . Probably he can run at least a sub 12 sec at 100.

Your head coach wrote:

Dhdhejrj wrote:

Stop saying Farah has 12.9 100m speed. This is just wrong. He’s closed races in 50-52. He clearly has faster 100m speed.

Similar with that single Euro indoor race of Ingebrigtsen vs. Lewandowski. It is a flawed data point.

Correct! He even finished in interval training with a 49 sec 400m . Probably he can run at least a sub 12 sec at 100.

Farah in a 100m:

He lost to the heavyweight Olympic boxer who ran 11.5 and to Grabarz (high jumper). The Brownlee's, two pro-triathletes (a very slow-twitch heavy sport) ran even slower around 14.5 (but can still run around 28:30 or faster 10k, and ran the 800 in 2:03 at the same event). Mo gave it all he had that race and wanted to get a good 100m PR.

Farah's biggest weakness is the acceleration, with his low muscle mass and fiber ratio in favor of ST it takes him very long to get to top speed. And it's not just acceleration, it's also explosiveness at the start and reaction time.

Now if you talk about Mo doing a 100 fly, hand-timed by Salazar I'm sure he can run much faster, around 11.1-11.3. But FAT is a different beast. He does a lot of top-end speed training with Salazar, his top speed is not the issue (and he can maintain it very, very long) it's that it takes him AGES to get to it. In a 5k or 10k it doesn't matter, but in a FAT 100 or 200 he just loses so much time. He would negative split a 400m race, as he loses so much on the first 100m with start and acceleration phase.

In a race he always has a flying start!It doesn't matter what he can do from the blocks.

Exceptions do not prove the rule. wrote:

Truce Bulloh wrote:

Bruce Tulloh himself said that he later doubled his mileage but could never improve on his times.

Exceptions do not prove the rule. Besides, you should've went with someone with a faster PB like Doug Padilla. Who ran 13:15 5000 off of just 50-60 MPW. Even in this context, Doug ran 30 odd seconds faster than Bruce who only did 30 MPW, which I leave what you conclude from that.

PS. Bruce did not make the 1960 Olympic 5000 finial and the person won won it was Murray Halberg.

Doug Padilla running 50-60MPW? More like around 40 MPW with occasional spikes up to 50 but primarily down around 40 MPW. It worked for him but yeah, it probably doesn't work for about 90% of runners.

I Was There! wrote:

Exceptions do not prove the rule. wrote:

Exceptions do not prove the rule. Besides, you should've went with someone with a faster PB like Doug Padilla. Who ran 13:15 5000 off of just 50-60 MPW. Even in this context, Doug ran 30 odd seconds faster than Bruce who only did 30 MPW, which I leave what you conclude from that.

PS. Bruce did not make the 1960 Olympic 5000 finial and the person won won it was Murray Halberg.

Doug Padilla running 50-60MPW? More like around 40 MPW with occasional spikes up to 50 but primarily down around 40 MPW. It worked for him but yeah, it probably doesn't work for about 90% of runners.

How do you know that? I mean, how do you know that it wouldn't work for about 90% of runners? I do believe it had worked , but only with a perfect training system of course.

This nitpicking is ridiculous and absolutely useless for this thread.

Mileage varies a bit by event. Most world class 10k-marathon runners around around 100 mpw.

1500-5k runners are 80s-100.

800/1500 guys vary. Engels, Murphy, Robby Andrews, Leo Manzano were all 60s-70s.

Centro, Willis, Houlihan, Prakel, Quigley, Coburn, Schneider, Schweizer are all in the 80s for mileage.

Chelimo, True, Mead, Lomong are in the 90s-100.

Hunter runs a bit less, like 70-80.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

runn wrote:

This ends the debate.

I remember when Bob Kennedy broke 13;00. He said something like- I realized I wasn't going to be able to compete at the top level on only 90 mpw.

What he actually realized was that he or his coach didn`t know how to reach sub 13 on 60-90 mpw.

Are there any runners who have run sub 13 on 60-90 mpw?

You need slow running eg on Tuesday I did some hard reps, yesterday I thought I had torn my calf and I hobbled home. Today I felt a lot better but jogged slowly. You simply can't run fast each day. Some days you are stiff.

Another giver of +1 wrote:

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

What he actually realized was that he or his coach didn`t know how to reach sub 13 on 60-90 mpw.

Are there any runners who have run sub 13 on 60-90 mpw?

Rumours from Aouita, was that he only did 50 MPW.

Another giver of +1 wrote:

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

What he actually realized was that he or his coach didn`t know how to reach sub 13 on 60-90 mpw.

Are there any runners who have run sub 13 on 60-90 mpw?

Bernhard Lagat

Outliers and outlets and the occult wrote:

Truce Bulloh wrote:

Bruce Tulloh couldn't beat his 13.49 when he doubled his mileage to 60MPW. I therefore conclude that Doug was naturally faster!

Not sure the relevance of your last line?

If 30MPW was good enough for Bruce Tulloh to run 13.49 then its more than enough for you to earch whatever goal you have?

What if I want to run faster than 13:49? And what percent of people who have ran 13:49 only ran 30 MPW? He is what you would call a outlier. I wouldn't base my training on a outlier.

Can you run 13.49 just now?

Bruce Tulloh doubled his mileage and couldn't beat 13.49

As for the outlier, the reason for that is that all elites do high mileage. They need to in order to justify being full time, otherwise what would they do all day?

And at elite level, marginal differences are important.

But for mere mortals such as yourself, high mileage isn't necessary!

Exceptions do not prove the rule wrote:

Truce Bulloh wrote:

Bruce Tulloh couldn't beat his 13.49 when he doubled his mileage to 60MPW. I therefore conclude that Doug was naturally faster!

Not sure the relevance of your last line?

If 30MPW was good enough for Bruce Tulloh to run 13.49 then its more than enough for you to earch whatever goal you have?

Murray was a Lydiard athlete. Bruce could not make it through the rounds at the Olympics, I wonder why?

I take it that you run high mileage?

Have you made it through to the Olympics?

No?

But Tulloh did. I wonder why?

Racist!