Is Kejelcha or Mo a better runner?

Mo would not have been a factor in that race and you know it. Of course, if he were actually in it, the winning time probably would have been 13:2x so maybe then he would have won. But that's beside the point. I want you to answer the question that you've been avoiding. Why should I believe Mo was capable of running considerably faster but never did? If he could threaten Bekele's records, why wouldn't Salazar have him time trial some races like he had Rupp do to get all of his American records? At the end of the day, he was nowhere near the all-time marks for 5k and 10k, yet we have all these moronic fans making excuses for him and suggesting he could beat guys like Barega and Kejelcha in a fast race. It's senseless.

just answer the question wrote:

Mo would not have been a factor in that race and you know it. Of course, if he were actually in it, the winning time probably would have been 13:2x so maybe then he would have won. But that's beside the point. I want you to answer the question that you've been avoiding. Why should I believe Mo was capable of running considerably faster but never did? If he could threaten Bekele's records, why wouldn't Salazar have him time trial some races like he had Rupp do to get all of his American records? At the end of the day, he was nowhere near the all-time marks for 5k and 10k, yet we have all these moronic fans making excuses for him and suggesting he could beat guys like Barega and Kejelcha in a fast race. It's senseless.

I haven't avoided answering anything. You should believe Mo was capable of running faster if you watched his career, the people he beat, looked at his times, how races were run, etc. I do not think he could have threatened Bekele's records. He didn't ever run faster because he didn't have to. I'm not a fan of Mo, just a fan of analytical thinking and pointing out those incapable of it. People dumb enough to think that Kejelcha would have dropped a several-time world champion with a 12:53 PR when he couldn't even drop a 12:55 guy.

Not a fan either and Salazar can rot in hell for all I care but when Canova who coached Mo for a while says something like that quote, I take notice and consider it very credible. The fact that Mo's PR is from 2011 says a lot too only 3 months after joining NOP. He was not beating Bekele's World record but if he ever ended up in a race like Brussels or Paris, he would've been a 12 40 something runner definetely. If Paris 2012 was a slow race, we would've never known Alamirew, Gebremeskel and Gebrewhit were 12 40 something runners as most only done it once in their career and in a perfect race. It's the nature of running. We never seen Mo blow up in a 5k but we have seen Kejelcha.

There is just no point in looking at Farah’s PBs. He ran his 12:53 in 2011 before he was a world beater and never attempted to run faster, he simply beat 12:4x guys day in day out. If anyone thinks 12:53 represented his absolute top ability then they are deliberately being obtuse.

exrunner wrote:

There is just no point in looking at Farah’s PBs. He ran his 12:53 in 2011 before he was a world beater and never attempted to run faster, he simply beat 12:4x guys day in day out. If anyone thinks 12:53 represented his absolute top ability then they are deliberately being obtuse.

This tells a story. Farah's 12:53 finished with a 53.6 last lap and look who he beat and by how far.

1.Mo Farah (Britain) 12:53.11

2. Bernard Lagat (U.S.) 12:53.60 3

3.Isiah Kiplangat Koech (Kenya) 12:54.18 4. Imane Merga (Ethiopia) 12:55.47 5.Thomas Longosiwa (Kenya) 12:56.08 6.Eliud Kipchoge (Kenya) 12:59.01 7.Tariku Bekele (Ethiopia) 12:59.25 8.Yenew Alamirew (Ethiopia) 13:00

No one runs 53.6 for a last lap in a race that is on the limit of their capabilities and this was was in 2011 only a few months after joining Salazar.

1. Mo Farah (Britain) 12:53.11

2. Bernard Lagat (U.S.) 12:53.60

3. Isiah Kiplangat Koech (Kenya) 12:54.18

4. Imane Merga (Ethiopia) 12:55.47

5. Thomas Longosiwa (Kenya) 12:56.08

6. Eliud Kipchoge (Kenya) 12:59.01

7. Tariku Bekele (Ethiopia) 12:59.25

8. Yenew Alamirew (Ethiopia) 13:00

Derartu Tulu wrote:

exrunner wrote:

There is just no point in looking at Farah’s PBs. He ran his 12:53 in 2011 before he was a world beater and never attempted to run faster, he simply beat 12:4x guys day in day out. If anyone thinks 12:53 represented his absolute top ability then they are deliberately being obtuse.

No one runs 53.6 for a last lap in a race that is on the limit of their capabilities and this was was in 2011 only a few months after joining Salazar.

I'm sure everyone agrees that Farah could have run faster, but I would dispute the notion that he could have run a LOT faster. Maybe he could have run 12:50, maybe even 12:45, but I doubt he would have been anywhere close to Geb and Bekele. If he was secretly a 12:39 guy then at some point he'd have run within 14 seconds of his potential.

Furthermore, imperfect pacing isn't uncommon for a PR race. Pretty much no one ever gets a perfectly even race, so it's meaningless to talk in hypotheticals. In Brussels Barega closed in 55 off a much faster pace than Farah; Kejelcha closed in 58 after leading the last 2k; and both faced an overly aggressive early pace. Like Farah, both Kejelcha and Barega could have run faster than their PR, so its unfair to only give Farah the benefit of the doubt.

Don't get me wrong, I think Farah's string of victories is one of the most impressive streaks in track history, but his unwillingness to test his mettle in fast races left a sour taste in the mouths' of many track fans. Whether he was stuck at 12:53 because of a lack of fitness or a lack of motivation doesn't really matter to me. Both are unbecoming of an all time great.

Lofty Goals wrote:

I'm sure everyone agrees that Farah could have run faster,

Some posters on this thread have vehemently disagreed with this. They are idiots.

Lofty Goals wrote:

Whether he was stuck at 12:53 because of a lack of fitness or a lack of motivation doesn't really matter to me. Both are unbecoming of an all time great.

He wasn't stuck for either of those reasons. His PR stayed at 12:53 because of lack of necessity to run faster. I agree that it is why he has no case against Bekele or Geb (has ANYONE claimed that he compares with them in this thread?), but it doesn't mean those Paris guys that he beat all the time are better than him.

To be honest, my problem isn't that Kejelcha and Barega couldnt run faster than they have, I think they could and maybe will. You would be suprised how many people here think Farah couldn't run faster than 12:53 though. I didn't even mention how the race was paced in 2011 because it's pointless but a 53.6 in a PR race shows undeniably that Farah could run a lot faster than 12:53. That's 53.6 is close to what wins slowish tactical races and means he had a lot left in the tank to run that fast over the last lap. Bekele ran 57 when he set the record which shows what we know, he was close to maxed in that race and it was probably the best paced race of the modern era.

Mo was not breaking Bekele's record, no way so I don't see why he would setup a fast time trial race just to run a fast time and he was never in a sub 12:50 race which are like gold dust. Since 2000, there has only been 10 races that have had winning times under 12:50 and 5 of them were with Bekele attacking the clock without fear of losing because he was so much faster than everyone else.

4 of 5 of Bekele's sub 12:50's- No one else ran sub 12:50

Eliud Kipchoge won 2 of those 10 with a best of 12:46

Shaheen won 1 of those 10- He was racing El G so had to make the pace honest and only Shaheen went sub-12:50

Gebremeskel won 1 of those 10- A ridiculous 6 broke 12:50

Barega won 1 of those 10- Kejelcha knew he couldn't outkick him after their debacle earlier that season so tried to make it honest and fast. A ridiculous 3 broke 12:47

Even if you go back to Haile's era. Haile ran under 12:50 4 times. 3 of those were world records where he was out of sight and one was where he got towed to the World record by Komen who couldn't outkick Haile so had to front run

3 people ran under 12:50 in the 90's

7 people ran under 12:50 in the 00's

8 people ran under 12:50 in the 10's so far

This decade has the most of any under 12:47 with 4, it's 2 in both the 90's and 00's

See the pattern in the races, The majority of all the sub-12:50 races in History have been won by big margins by athletes who were a lot better than there competition and making World Record attempts or were lead out by a runner who couldn't outkick the competition.

If you can't break the World record now more than at any other point in the history of sub 12:50 races, you are a fool to lead out as there is a huge glut of guys who are running that fast and even faster and all you would be doing is setting them up to win. They have to be a lot better to run away from the competition. You frontrun like Kejelcha did last year and two guys are still stuck to him at the bell. You have a situation where if you can't break the World record, why try run away from someone who can't be run away from at anything slower than that?

Farah didn't try to beat records he knew were more juiced than he was.

Mo beat a lot of sub 12:50 runners. The question is why with a coach like Salazar, who likes to have his athletes go for records and fast times when they are ready, did not have him go after them. Maybe he was not capable of running them? No, that can't be the case. Mo did not want to do it, same as Centro, except that Mo could stick with any pace in any race of 1500m up to 10000m, whereas Centro can only win 3:34 races and slower against the best in the world and cannot stick with the Monaco pace to sub 3:30. Neither makes much of an effort to run very fast races, though. So, it's not the coach; it's the athlete. In Centro's case, it is possible he could have run a mid 3:29 at his peak, but he was not good enough to challenge for world records. In Mo's case, maybe he could not challenge the world records, but he could have run in the low 12:40s surely but did not want to do it, because he only values winning.

I think Mo feared getting beaten by one of the 12:4X Ethiopians had he ever time trialed. He has had to get towed through an awful lot of the way in his faster 10k efforts. (Prefontaine, for example.)

If one of those 12:4X Ethiopians weren’t in a time trial and he failed to clock a fast time I truly think it would have weighed heavily on his confidence as well as his image. I recall him bonking pretty hard out there alone in a 3k that was billed as a fast effort before either Rio or London.

Mo is probably very aware of being the guy with many shiny trinkets surrounded by a mystique of “coulda run faster” but never had to... (and never tried)

You guys don't get it. Mo never time-trialed a race because he didn't want his competitors to know what he was capable of. If you know how fast they are, that influences your race strategy immensely. Keeping everyone in the dark on how aerobically fit Mo was made him a lot harder to race and a lot scarier to try to beat. You wouldn't know whether you should push the pace or hope to have a better kick at the end.

Seems like that strategy worked well for him.

Only someone who has never won anything of any significance can refer to World or Olympic titles as "shiny trinkets". Complete moran.

Imagine comparing PRs side-by-side, concluding that the faster runner is better, and then getting swarmed by a bunch of angry whiners who insist that time doesn't matter. What a bizarre thread. Could Mo have run faster? Most likely, but let's not get carried away. He probably would have gone under 12:50 but not by much. If he was ever in low 12:4x shape an attempt would have been made. People who insist he never chased fast times seem to forget he broke 3:29 on two occasions.

Imagine being so simple-minded that you think times are all that matter.

12:45 for certain.

I think he was a 12:4x runner who also had 3:28 speed. Therefore his competition was unable to outrun or outsprint him. If he was a 12:53 guy like some suggest then he would have simply lost all the time racing the 12:45 guys he beat routinely.