PLEASE DISCUSS. I was labeled a Return Policy Abuser at a running shoe store because I had 4 or 5 returns.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Shameless scallywag wrote:

You were well and properly banned. You are a lying cheating louse and a cheap one on top of it.

Come on guy. I'm just asking for a serious tone with this. Please.

I was completely serious. I'm glad to see that most everyone else agrees with me. Either you are the worst sort of freeloader or you are mentally ill.

sensible people's approach wrote:

OP, everyone else is right - if every shoe but one version of one shoe from 2 years ago causes you pain (when that shoe only had a minor change to the upper compared to a shoe you can still buy)...then it's not every shoe in the world's fault...it's something else you should be able to fix.

1.) Go buy Running Rewired

2.) Do what the book says

3.) Go to a store, find a pair of shoes that are comfortable

4.) Run pain free

4b.) If you have a similar "pain after 10 miles" issue in the future, sell those shoes at a discount in The Running Bin Facebook group. This will give you an acute sense of what you are doing to your local running store. Shoes with 10 miles on them are available for a touch more than half as much as retail price...because they're used.

I have no pain while running, and I have never had a serious injury, running 40-50 miles a week. The issue is afterwards : pain or should I say weird discomforts that didn't exist with other shoes that worked.

I'm a firm believer in listening to my body, and if something is not working I don't really believe in putting up with it or trying to push through it, so that is why I returned those 5 pairs of shoes. I think since Running Warehouse is so flexible with their policy I applied that understanding with other running shoe stores , but I see that isn't the case, or that was not the right approach.

I'm currently running in the zoom elite 9 and I'm liking the merrell access flex, which is a 0 drop flat. I'm a slight supinator, with a forefoot to midfoot strike, and I what I like about the zoom elite as well as the merrell flex is that they both keep the heel fixed in place which helps to keep my ankles from moving outward, cutting down on the supination.

I need to be close to the ground as possible, so that my turnover is quick and fast, allowing a more neutral pronation. Shoes with huge stack heights and high heel drops make my supination more than what it is. So a shoe has to be very flexible in the front, structure in the middle and heel part of the shoe, light, low to the ground with a nice amount on rubber on the sole. The New Balance Zante version 2 breathe was perfect in that sense, as well as the pure grit 1 ( which was more of a hybrid on the road off the road shoe, with no lugs. It was 4mm, light and durable).

The reason why I say I have good running mechanics is because my situation would be a lot worse than what is if I didn't run properly. My scoliosis is a slight curve, and has been with me since I was born, degenerate disc developed after the car accident. However, by maintaining an upright walking posture, and lifting correctly, plus my weight training and swimming, I have never had any major issues.

I have to be very deliberate with things, as well as being very cautious. Discomfort or pain is a signal from the body that something isn't right. Now, what is causing it? example: If I walk barefoot,or wear regular shoes, or a specific running shoe, there is no pain ( never excruciating pain) )or discomfort. But if I wear this particular running shoe or that particular running shoe, there is discomfort. So how do I approach the situation? Since I am a minimalist, and I believe the simplest answer is the best answer ( all things being equal), the answer would be to get rid of the shoes that are causing the problem. That is the reason for my action.

If running shoe companies didn't discontinue a running shoe after one year, a lot of this issues wouldn't occur. But at the same time I realize that running shoe stores are trying to run a business, and they have a bottom line to protect in order to stay in business.

One more thing. I can run non stop in a pair of crocks with no issues, seriously. Crocks are all rubber, and most shoes that have mostly rubber soles are like heaven to me.

Another example, the Clark Dessert Boots, which uses the same crepe rubber sole that the german soldiers used on their boots during world war 2. Same thing goes for the wallabees.

I can run in those shoes for miles and miles with no issue.

is midsole foam really needed, and does it hurt the body more than it helps the body?

There's listening to your body and then there's being scared at the slightest twinge. You sound like you're in the latter camp.

The body will adapt if you give it time to adapt to minor aches and pains.

Certainly listen to your body but also be willing to trust that it will heal and maintain its health rather than throwing out the shoes at the first hint of trouble.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

One more thing. I can run non stop in a pair of crocks with no issues, seriously. Crocks are all rubber, and most shoes that have mostly rubber soles are like heaven to me.

So, then what's the problem? Crocs have not been discontinued:

Uhhh wrote:

There's listening to your body and then there's being scared at the slightest twinge. You sound like you're in the latter camp.

The body will adapt if you give it time to adapt to minor aches and pains.

Certainly listen to your body but also be willing to trust that it will heal and maintain its health rather than throwing out the shoes at the first hint of trouble.

You make a valid point, and I think you might be right.

One of the chumps I run with was pretty proud of the fact that he had learned how to game Sports Authority's return policy. Which is probably one of the reasons that Sports Authority is now bankrupt. He would return his shoes every few weeks and they replaced without question.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Btw, I'm African American, and I'm really trying stay away from the race card with this......but it is hard.

Agreed

No, you were not out of line. I worked in a shoe store before and during law school and frequently people would return shoes. It's part of the game. If there is a structural issue or defect the company takes them back and replaces them, so it really doesn't cost the shop anything.

The old boss always was of the idea that if he allowed people to find shoes that really worked he would get way more repeat customers. The only time I can recall a shoe return being denied was when it had been used for about a month and was just destroyed.

My suggestion to you would be to find a new shop.

I don’t think it was racially motivated. I’ve seen plenty of white trash and trailer trash folks doing that. Come on dude...5 returns in a relatively short period of time? And the topper is you used them, regardless the treadmill.

Ultimately it’s the store owners fault for having such a lenient return policy; it exposes them to people who will take advantage of them. People like...you for example?

Having managed a running store for years, people like you are the worst. Come in, but shoes, try them out for a few runs, decide you don’t like them. Get something else. Same thing. Leather rinse repeat. Get 6 months of free shoes for nothing. Meanwhile I got 5-6 pairs of shoes I can’t sell. No thanks. Shop somewhere else.

Side note: if you only keep 2 out of every 7 pairs of shoes, you’re either and idiot and terrible shopper or you’re a scam artist. Or some kind of weird combination of the two.

5 returns in 2-3 months? Lol you can’t be serious. Of course they kicked you out lol.

ACL Thief wrote:

I don't think you understand what "BRAND NEW" means. You ran 10 miles in them, dude. Even 400m would make them not brand new. I would probably do the same thing if I owned the store.

Just about all running stores will let you walk around the store, run on the treadmill for several minutes. A lot of local running shops (without or pre-instore treadmill) even encourage people to take a short runs outside and still sell those shoes as new. Actually, a local shop even has a mini outdoor track for people to test shoes on. Those shoes that have been tested at the store often have 400+ m on them, and are still sold as new, and few people have a problem with that.

When I try on a shoe at REI or my local running store, if the shoe feels like it might be good (some are immediate nos as soon as my feet get in them), I'm sure to wear them around the store for at least 5 minutes to see if there's incompatibility with my feet that I don't notice right away. My suggestion is that the OP should take advantage of that in store tryout better in the future.

To the OP:

You are definitely too sensitive about how you feel after you run. It's exercise and it's not supposed to feel perfect all the time. Some days will feel good, others will not and one misstep or strange stride may cause something to feel off that you normally wouldn't feel. In addition, your shoes aren't broken in after 5 or 10 miles. I typically do shorter runs (5 mi or less) if I can during the first 20 miles of a shoe and won't expect the shoe to feel good until 40-50 miles. You need to give these shoes a bit more of a chance.

I've purchased many shoes that I decide just aren't right after running in them for a bit. I would never return these to a running store. I might use them for shorter/easier runs, I might just use them to walk around in or do yard work, etc. If you really want to get something back for them put then on Ebay - there are lots of barely used running shoes on there that people buy.

You seem to know a lot of about your mechanics - I found that when I worked at a running store I was much pickier about shoes because I was constantly scrutinizing every shoe and had trouble finding something perfect. You need to relax a bit because you're overthinking it. Finding the "perfect" running shoe is really tough and nearly impossible unless you get lucky - I don't think any of the shoes I'm currently using are perfect but they're close enough.

It's tough to believe you have "great mechanics" and then complain about discomfort after running in most shoes. If you truly do have great mechanics you probably need to work on your sensitivity, and if not you probably need to work on your running posture and hip strength/mobility which should really help with your back and knee pain. Going to a PT with knowledge of running should really help.

You really shouldn't run in the Zoom Elite. If you supinate you don't want a soft shoe - that will make you more prone to supination especially with such a high stack height (25/17). I'm not surprised you don't like it as much as your NB/Brooks shoes. You should really look into Altra - zero drop brand with a wide base (this is huge for supinators) and some options with low stack heights. Definitely stay away from softer brands like Nike and Saucony.

Supporting your local running store is great, but I think you need to understand what the return policy is for. This should be used in the event of a defect or something really unexpected that happens. As others have said, this isn't an invitation to test drive the shoes you buy. To the poster who thinks this is a stupid business policy - you have a pretty bleak outlook on humanity. Maybe the policy could be re-written or clarified, but I think most people shopping at a local running store (or any local business) are okay paying more and accepting a stricter return policy because they want to support local businesses.

To those concerned about purchasing shoes on Running Warehouse because some posters have said they return a ton of shoes there, the site isn't re-selling these. The individual shoe companies are giving RW credits for these and they are sent back or donated. Local running stores will have less leeway to do this because they are a smaller account. RW buys so much they can pretty much call the shots, and if they have to eat the cost of a particular purchase they can afford it. That's why they can offer free 2 day shipping anywhere in the country - because they do the volume to support this type of approach. Local running stores aren't re-selling these "barely used" shoes either, it just hurts them more than it would a bigger company like RW.

Running shoe stores are all in financial trouble right now. 5 pairs at lets say 120 a pop adds up. They will try to sell them for 60 dollars so they just lost 300 because of the returns. Find a shoe that works and stick with it. If nikes haven't worked, don't buy them. Wear what keeps you healthy, there's usually a brand out there for everyone

Scorpion I haven’t read through all the comments so I don’t know if this has already been discussed but my overriding concern would be that you still seem to have issue with shoe selection after what sounds like many years being a runner.

Are you a big guy, small, long or short legged, heel striker or forefoot, high medium or low arch, and do you pronate, supinate or neutral?

Seems that after many years experience you shouldn’t still be experimenting with different styles of shoe - surely you “know” what’s best for you by now?

I’m guessing from your posting history that you are probably in your mid thirties, and run 3-5 times a week, - but I’m no Sherlock Holmes so I could be hopelessly off the mark?

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Uhhh wrote:

There's listening to your body and then there's being scared at the slightest twinge. You sound like you're in the latter camp.

The body will adapt if you give it time to adapt to minor aches and pains.

Certainly listen to your body but also be willing to trust that it will heal and maintain its health rather than throwing out the shoes at the first hint of trouble.

You make a valid point, and I think you might be right.

The problem of discontinued lines and rising prices is frustrating.

I've been through various makes and models over the years but last year decided to try a pair of $30 shoes on the basis that I'd buy more if they were cost-effective and didn't cause injury.

The first day I ran in them the soles felt really hard and inflexible. It wasn't comfortable. It took about 30-50 miles to break them in but then they became comfortable and I eeked them out to about 450 miles. The next pair it only took 30 miles to break them in and it's been getting quicker with each pair. The aches and pains disappeared as my feet adapted. I've been using them for over a year now and don't even question them.

I didn't use them exclusively from the beginning, I gradually mixed them in with my big old Asics 12mm. The funny thing is that when I tried the Asics six months later (because they've only got 250 miles on), *they* felt awful! They're still in my collection because of that unused mileage but I don't know that I'll ever use them again.

(The other version of this story is when I tried barefoot running around a grass park. I'm one of those people who suffered many aches and pains from doing too much, too soon. Couldn't take my bare feet back under a returns policy though! But after a couple of months I was loving it and only gave it up when the ground just got too hard from the summer sun. That was when my body told me it was time to stop as there was potential for a fracture or broken bone. Learning the difference between aches and pains, and major issues is a real skill )

Scorpion_runner wrote:

One more thing. I can run non stop in a pair of crocks with no issues, seriously. Crocks are all rubber, and most shoes that have mostly rubber soles are like heaven to me.

Crocs are not rubber. They are some kind of injection molded EVA. If they are great for you, I don't see why you shouldn't run in them.

Some dude who posts here runs in them, and his fast kid(s) run in them as well.

Crocks are 100% EVA foam as was posted earlier. They are more like the Kinvara than any other shoe you have run in. Here are the real financial costs of your business. A $120 shoe cost the running store $66.00 + shipping to store. Store makes $54.00 max b4 any costs like rent/wages/utilities are subtracted. The 7 pairs of shoes cost the store $462.00. You kept 2 pair for a profit of $108.00. You being a customer cost the store $354.00. Now you understand why they flagged you as a serial returner.