Steve Magness exploded against Almaz Ayana on twitter

"Some" of these comments are showing up a particular insecurity in a particular people. Ayana is an amazing talent and pulled almost everyone in that race to a PB. There were PBs, ARs and NRs everwhere. I suppose that means the whole field was doping. Cheruiyot was pulled to almost match the old recod - I suppose that means she's also doping.

"Some of you" need to check the insecurity and anxiety in your psychology.

I haven't read this thread. But if a woman can run 14:11 I'm not surprised she ran run 29:17.

I'm not naive that some of these runners could be doping.

The US women haven't been competitive at 5000 for a while. Now the 10,000

But if Molly Huddle can run 30:13, and set a huge PR, why can't Ayana?

The conditions were perfect.

Where do we draw the line on who was and who wasn't doping in the race?

Personally I think the 4:42 avg mile pace for 26.2 by a male on the roads is a little harder to comprehend than the 4:42 avg pace for 10k on a track by a female. Honestly I do not have enough information here to take a clear position on whether these were on PED's.

wejo wrote:

I haven't read this thread. But if a woman can run 14:11 I'm not surprised she ran run 29:17.

I'm not naive that some of these runners could be doping.

The US women haven't been competitive at 5000 for a while. Now the 10,000

But if Molly Huddle can run 30:13, and set a huge PR, why can't Ayana?

The conditions were perfect.

Where do we draw the line on who was and who wasn't doping in the race?

I don't think there is a line anymore. The question hangs over everyone.

HRE wrote:

wejo wrote:

I haven't read this thread. But if a woman can run 14:11 I'm not surprised she ran run 29:17.

I'm not naive that some of these runners could be doping.

The US women haven't been competitive at 5000 for a while. Now the 10,000

But if Molly Huddle can run 30:13, and set a huge PR, why can't Ayana?

The conditions were perfect.

Where do we draw the line on who was and who wasn't doping in the race?

I don't think there is a line anymore. The question hangs over everyone.

Couple of things. Are we comparing apples and oranges in terms of old records vs new records. Much more money involved, much more professionalism than previous generations of runners. Full time athletes are just that much different from part time athletes.

However, we also know that the testers are not up to par with those that cheat. Say what you want, until there is enough money for truly complete testing, there will always be questions and concerns.

Until then, I suppose you enjoy the moment and respect the performances, as they are not accomplished by training an hour a day and getting drunk on the weekends.

Well said, HRE.

Everyone running at a world class level is suspicious. Just look at Meldonium. For years it was legal. As soon as it is not, dozens fail tests for it. It is a near certainty that there is already a legal or undetectable replacement. Athletes are ahead of the testers by years and the testers don't really want to catch them because it is bad publicity. The Olympics have become a drug fueled arms race. And some countries have an advantage of not being tested out of competition. Those countries also happen to have great talent so it is less visible, but lack of testing is certainly being exploited.

George Hirsch wrote:

sdfsfgasfd wrote:

Who cares what you have against Magness, his observations are right. That race was absurdly doped. No way Huddle should have been so far back running such an incredible time.

Prove it.

If it were that easy to prove, all dopers would get caught, and LR posters would have to go back to complaining about lack of attention from the opposite sex and blaming world problems on hobby joggers.

All of your observations of why something may not be amidst case are no better than my observations of why something is amidst.

amidst?

Must be a Trump supporter.

athletics nut wrote:

It's not just Magness.

It's Sonia O'Sullivan, Paula Radcliffe Charlotte Purdue, and on and on from athletes.

.

LMAO at Radcliffe finding a ridiculously fast time suspicious.

Precious Roy wrote:

Genzebe and Ayana have blown the doors off of distance running the past few years. It just does not seem possible that lightening can strike twice the way these two have come on the scene to run circles around the competition and take down previously doped WRs.

I think it's pretty common for individuals from the same country to push each other toward stellar performances, including world records. Offhand, I'd probably be more suspicious about, for example, a woman who runs a marathon three minutes and twenty-two seconds faster than any other woman in history, and -- despite coming from a nation of about sixty million people with a very distinguished history in distance running -- runs over ten minutes faster than any other woman from that country has ever run, and even faster than any male from that country runs during that particular year. I'm curious what the various commentators about this latest 10,000-meter performance might think about such a case, especially if this hypothetical marathon performance were before a home crowd in a race that's been organized by her own countrymen. (I know that it sounds like an absurdly unlikely scenario, but just humor me.)

Ben L Wrong wrote:

@stevemagness

I'm sorry, I'll say it. This is laughable. Laughable... take that for what it is.

@stevemagness

Splits for Ayana--- 14:46 and 14:31.... laughable.

@stevemagness

The saddest part is that trust is gone. We can't trust Bob Beamon-esque performances anymore thanks to where we've allowed doping to get.

maybe im missing something and this is cleared up already, but who is steve magness? :)

wejo wrote:

I haven't read this thread. But if a woman can run 14:11 I'm not surprised she ran run 29:17.

I'm not naive that some of these runners could be doping.

The US women haven't been competitive at 5000 for a while. Now the 10,000

But if Molly Huddle can run 30:13, and set a huge PR, why can't Ayana?

The conditions were perfect.

Where do we draw the line on who was and who wasn't doping in the race?

Who said she ran the 14:11 clean?

PaulaNumberOneClean wrote:

athletics nut wrote:

It's not just Magness.

It's Sonia O'Sullivan, Paula Radcliffe Charlotte Purdue, and on and on from athletes.

.

LMAO at Radcliffe finding a ridiculously fast time suspicious.

+1. I threw up in my mouth a little when I read that.

HRE wrote:

George Hirsch wrote:

Prove it.

Prove he's wrong.

No. Here the Ethiopian is on "trial" and she's guilty and proven innocent. The burden of proof is on Magness. That's how this society works.

VDOT for 29:17 10.0km: 74.9

Equivalent race times based on VDOT:

Marathon: 02:15:00 (25s faster than record, deemed "untouchable" by UK press)

Half marathon: 01:04:26 (record 1:05.09, male paced)

15K: 00:44:50

10K: 00:29:15 (HUH? 29:17 is equivalent to 29:15, is this broken?

5K: 00:14:04 (record 14:11.15, paced)

3Mi: 00:13:33

2Mi: 00:08:44

3200m: 00:08:40

3K: 00:08:05 (record 8:06.11, Wang Yunxia 1993)

1Mi: 00:04:05 (record 4:12.56, admittedly not run too much)

1600m: 00:04:03

1500m: 00:03:47 (record 3:50.07, paced)

How many of these are women's records? Answer, all of them. The VDOT GOAT.

heyyo wrote:

HRE wrote:

Prove he's wrong.

No. Here the Ethiopian is on "trial" and she's guilty and proven innocent. The burden of proof is on Magness. That's how this society works.

Except this is not a trial and there is no burden of proof. She'll keep her record and medal unless there is proof that she was doped. That's where the burden of proof lies. Magness may hope that his comments will motivate some scrutiny towards her race and he is doing nothing wrong if that's what he's doing.

Magness is a nobody loser and needs to STFU.

I think Magness is hurting the antidoping fight by saying that and I say that as an admirer of his. You can't just say something is laughable because it's fast.

To me, a coach should know the idea that a 14:05 athlete (and come on she's run 14:12 with horrible pacing) running 29:17for 10k isn't that shocking. So unless you were already calling her a doper before tonight, you shouldn't be doing it now.

At cornell, we had a couple guys run faster than 29:17 and none of them were sub 14:00 in the 5000.

I agree with the Brojos that 29:17 is not that unusual for someone who can run 14:12 for the 5000m. For each 5000m think she average ~26 seconds slower than her 5000m PR. Other competitors in the same race had an average pace closer to their 5000m PR (Pappas, Huddle, Saina, Andrews, Takashima). I never remember hearing accusations from Magness when Defar, Dibaba and Ayana ran around 14:11 for 5000m.