Steve Jones on running today

Hodgie-san wrote:

Okay, let's run this up the flagpole.

Being a marathoner to flagpole means...

Being a marathoner to Jonesey means...

Being a marathoner to Oprah means...

Being a marathoner to anonymous peckrrwoods on letsrunemdown means...

Do you see where I am going here?

If I don't know what a word means, I look it up in a dictionary. So, "marathoner" doesn't mean anything to me that it isn't defined as meaning.

Flagpole wrote:

Hodgie-san wrote:

Okay, let's run this up the flagpole.

Being a marathoner to flagpole means...

Being a marathoner to Jonesey means...

Being a marathoner to Oprah means...

Being a marathoner to anonymous peckrrwoods on letsrunemdown means...

Do you see where I am going here?

If I don't know what a word means, I look it up in a dictionary. So, "marathoner" doesn't mean anything to me that it isn't defined as meaning.

Flagpole, no reasonable person would call a charity runner a "marathoner" any more than they would call themselves a "chef" just because they can throw a few hot dogs on the grill.

You argument is absurd to the nth degree.

This video sums up how utter stubborn you are on some of these threads.

Jones Soda wrote:

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

Jones might have run faster than Hall and Dos Santos with better nutrition and hydration. But he is too afraid of thinking about that possibility, because that would mean he did not reach his full potential. Well, no one ever has and no one ever will. There will always be better ways to train and recover. 30 years from now, people may be scratching their heads, wondering why the runners in 2010s didn't do this or that. But that's okay. You do what you can do under the circumstances. But that does not mean everyone should follow your example just because you were the most successful of your generation.

Jones might have run faster than Hall and Dos Santos if he had raced them.

So why didn't he run faster when he raced Seko in Boston?

Flagpole wrote:

Hodgie-san wrote:

Flagpole, if he doesn't want to have the same definition of marathoner as you do or anyone else does that is his business.

No...see, that's where he (and now you) are wrong. You can't just change the definition of the word to suit your needs. I can't decide that my computer is no longer called a computer. Guess I'll call it a flobbedydo.

And, let's be clear, it is not MY definition. It is THE definition. We don't get to individually decide what words mean. There is no room for debate here. He is simply wrong.

Technically, there is no agreed upon definition of any words. Merriam-Webster's (a source you cited) definition is not a universal standard, rather it is just THEIR agreed upon definition,

That may be what he meant to say--or perhaps what he should have said--but it is not what he did say. I have met Steve about a dozen times. He's a good bloke, and I respect him, but he's not what one would call a 'silver tongued' human being. Some ex-champs are eloquent--Frank Shorter for example--Steve Jones is nice to have a few beers with, but he's not an ambassador.

Holy shiiiiiit lol

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

Jones Soda wrote:

Jones might have run faster than Hall and Dos Santos if he had raced them.

So why didn't he run faster when he raced Seko in Boston?

That's what Seko did.

Strongly disagree fentrekker. We don\'t need silver tongued we got plenty of that. We need characters and personalities. Jonesey is a great ambassador which is why he is still sought after years after his competitive career ended.

malmo wrote:

Flagpole, no reasonable person would call a charity runner a "marathoner" any more than they would call themselves a "chef" just because they can throw a few hot dogs on the grill.

^ this.

Flagpole wrote:

3) Walking breaks? Well, I have already clearly said that you have to run the thing. Technically speaking though, the definition of "marathoner" just says participate in or compete in, but it is generally understood that a marathon involves running, not walking.

Damn, during my 2:21:xx marathon PB I had to take two short walking breaks b/c of cramps. Good to know that on that day I was not a "marathoner."

HRE wrote:

you can play the "maybe if it had been this and not that" thing forever and when you're done all you KNOW is what actually happened and what happened is that he ran faster than any recent western runner did.

So Hall, Dos Santos, Zwierzchiewski, and Rey and not "recent Western runners"? Really?

Do you recall the time in grade school when they told you that you need a verb to have a complete sentence and that you generally need to write complete sentences for people to understand you?

So you pick on typo because you cannot answer the question?

Are they "recent western runners" or not? What is "recent" to you? What is "western" to you?

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

HRE wrote:

If sports drinks, massage and the like really are important why were guys like Jones, Hill, Rodgers, Foster, etc., able to run faster than without them than almost anyone now who uses them can?

Those are some of the best runners of their generation over a span of more than a decade. The following runners have run under 2:10 in the last five years.

Marilson Dos Santos. 2:06:34.

Henryk Szost 2:07:39.

Dathan Ritzenhein 2:07:47.

Ryan Hall 2:08:04. (2:06:17 in 2008)

Victor Rothlin 2:08:32 (2:07:23 in 2008).

Serhiy Lebid 2:08:32.

Oleksandr Sitkovskyy 2:09:11.

Arne Gabius 2:09:32.

Javier Guerra 2:09:33.

Dmitry Savronov. 2:09:35.

Vitaly Shahar. 2:09:53.

Aleksey Reunkov. 2:09:54.

Michel Butter. 2:09:58.

If you include 2006-2010, you will get a longer list. If you expand the list to sub-2:11 or sub-2:12, the list gets much longer.

Well here is a comparison for the UK

The standard has nose dived since 30 years ago

I cannot answer a question I don't understand. "Western" is generally North America, western Europe, Australia and New Zealand so I think only Hall would count as a western marathoner. Based on your list I counted him as slower than Jones because you listed him as a 2:08 guy rather than a 2:05 one. I suppose we could count Khannouchi as a western runner faster than Jones but he wouldn't be a western born one. Politically and economically Japan sometimes seems to get counted as a western country now so you might include Takaoka though he's not all that recent anymore and I have no idea whether he drank sports drinks, Diet Coke, or something else.

Anyway, what was the typo?

I don't think I'd ever heard of the last two guys but I would count them as faster than Jones although very much doubt they'd have been as fast had they run in his era. I'll amend the comment to "faster than virtually all recent western marathoners."

Upon further review, let's amend that statement once more to "faster than all but one recent western marathoner who wasn't doping.

I wish they had asked Jones his opinion of XC teams that "tempo" races.

The idea that prize money and sponsorship for elites comes from the entry fees of the masses is a tired myth. Big marathons have title sponsors like John Hancock or ING that pony up the cash. The entry fees cover the added costs of people who are on the course for 4, 5, even 7 hours and therefore require prolonged shutdowns of traffic, mass transit, etc. Also, back in the day, runners didn't get excited about the idea of a band at every mile or post-race buffets or pre-race feeds or any of the bullshit pack runners dig.

Hell, if anything, the pack runners have made things more difficult for competitive runners (not elites, but your decent 6:00 per mile guys) by driving up entry fees and making it harder to get bibs if you don't make the elite cut-offs. A guy who can run 2:45 shouldn't lose out to a guy who runs 4:45 simply because the latter has a faster reaction time when online registration opens six months before an event and the field fills up within a few hours.

So, complain all you want about the supposed marginalization of everyday runners by Jonesy's words, but everyday runners aren't hurt by such comments unless they choose to be, really,

Finally, I'm not sure if Just Another Hobby Jogger was among the guys who claimed Jonesy is living in the past, but I think he was, which is damn funny given that he hastens to qualify his performances of today by saying he USED to be able to run 16 minutes for 5K. Didn't we all...