Rupp certified: Rupp could medal in 2016 as WADA refuses to ban thyroid meds despite lobbying!!

Ok. You're an idiot. Sorry I wasted my time.

That your done with me -- it's probably best.But does this mean you are done "building your case" that WADA is wrong?

clerk wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Do you honestly not see the difference between quotes from "officials" and "spokespersons" versus conclusions from "doctors" and "scientists"?

If this whole thread is about the "fact" that "WADA is wrong", I look forward to the arguments that will attempt to prove this fact.

I'm now regarding you as a troll. This is ridiculous. I've spent the whole thread doing just that.

We have evidence it is harmful. We have evidence it is used against the spirit of the sport. We have evidence that USADA and UKAD pointed this matter out to WADA and were ignored. WADA is wrong.

I'm done with you.

Again another conclusion without substantion? Big surprise.The thing is, thyroid medication has been a non-story from the beginning. Everyone is wasting their time.The only interesting question is, if USADA/UKAD somehow found and presented some new evidence -- that has not yet been made public. Or if they will now direct research in order to find new evidence.If USADA/UKAD came with new evidence/arguments, (or if not), WADA's committee of medical experts were not convinced. It remains to be seen why.

Gulp wrote:

Ok. You're an idiot. Sorry I wasted my time.

A "non-story" investigated and reported by the Wall Street Journal, the BBC, USADA, and UKADA.

You're either a simple-minded internet troll or a low-level PR drone for Freud PR.

This issue is not going away. Hormone therapy will be banned.

Basically yes, despite all these reports and investigations. The simple fact remains unchanged that thyroid medication has always been non-banned, and will remain so, at least until Dec. 31, 2016. It has never required a TUE, or any other disclosure. WADA and the IOC, despite being aware of thyroid medication concerns for years, have never implemented any measures to monitor and control thyroid treatment for athletes. If nothing comes from all of these investigations, as has been the case so far, thyroid medication abuse will remain a non-story, with respect to anti-doping regulations for athletes.That USADA/UKAD felt that they had to go to WADA indicates that there is nothing else they can do under current anti-doping regulations, except lobby for change.PR drone for Freud -- ha ha, good one. That's funny every time.It disturbs me to see people come up with words like "innuendo", "hearsay", and "gossip" -- these were not my terms to describe USADA/UKAD's evidence. But let me restate for clarity, with neutral terms, and tone, in my best effort to avoid further offense. My requests for information from page 3 still remain completely unaddressed:1) Outside of the WSJ and BBC links in this thread, is there any public information about what supporting evidence USADA and UKAD presented to WADA? I assume, since the BBC documentary triggered this, that at least it includes the concerns raised, and all supporting evidence, by athletes interviewed in the BBC documentary, and other Nike athletes/staff that have come forward since. Do we have any public information about what else was presented to WADA?2) Does anyone have any compelling arguments, that WADA ignored or under-valued any presented evidence, and betrayed their role of independence?I'll add a third, as a gesture to "clerk", for balance:3) Does anyone know what information WADA considered, in addition to USADA/UKAD's presented evidence, before denying the request to include thyroid medication in their 2016 banned substances list?NOTE: These are simple questions designed to probe and centralize here what information has been made public, without hope or agenda, except for the sake of improving the quality of the discussion.My answer to all 3 questions is "No". Outside of statements in the WSJ and BBC articles linked in this thread, I do not know what evidence USADA/UKAD presented, what evidence WADA considered, and if WADA considered all of the evidence objectively. I can speculate, and have speculated, but my opinions are my own.Is anyone else able to provide a different answer, including external corroboration?

Clean Sport wrote:

A "non-story" investigated and reported by the Wall Street Journal, the BBC, USADA, and UKADA.

You're either a simple-minded internet troll or a low-level PR drone for Freud PR.

This issue is not going away. Hormone therapy will be banned.

Ask the USADA scientists directly.

I was recently rereading the 300+ pages of JK stuff and came across this on page 88:

"The monocarboxlylate transport (MCT) proteins are instrumental in this process, specifically the MCT-1 and MCT-4 "isoforms," whose expressions are increased via certain types of training and associated recovery stages. Expression of these isoforms during training is also dramatically increased by supplementation with testosterone and by thyroid hormone."

Not sure where he got this information, but if it is true, thyroid is a PED for sure.

SlowFatMaster wrote:

I was recently rereading the 300+ pages of JK stuff and came across this on page 88:

"The monocarboxlylate transport (MCT) proteins are instrumental in this process, specifically the MCT-1 and MCT-4 "isoforms," whose expressions are increased via certain types of training and associated recovery stages. Expression of these isoforms during training is also dramatically increased by supplementation with testosterone and by thyroid hormone."

Not sure where he got this information, but if it is true, thyroid is a PED for sure.

Solid trolling right here.

Make such a stupid argument for thyroid as a PED that everyone will come in saying it isn't. Like getting a journalist to talk about a commercial too raunchy for TV, so everyone goes to watch it online.

Just to be clear, your quote lists that training, recovery, testosterone and thyroid all increase MCT expression. That effect does not qualify anything as a PED, and it shouldn't because training and recovery would have do be included if it did.

Thank you for bumping this thread for more weekend let's-warriors to air their uninformed opinions about thyroid hormones.

Cashier wrote:

Just to be clear, your quote lists that training, recovery, testosterone and thyroid all increase MCT expression. That effect does not qualify anything as a PED, and it shouldn't because training and recovery would have do be included if it did.

Thank you for bumping this thread for more weekend let's-warriors to air their uninformed opinions about thyroid hormones.

The uniformed one is you. Or, do you have evidence that WADA banned PEDs must include "training and recovery" as a requirement to be listed as banned?

Can you expand on how you get from JK's quote about "MCT-1 and MCT-4 expression in training" to "thyroid is a PED for sure"?Where can I find the 300 pages of JK stuff?Of course, being a PED, even if "PE" were true, is not enough.WADA's stated issues with banning thyroid treatment are based on insufficient "scientific" evidence of "performance enhancement" or "significant harm":http://www.wsj.com/articles/thyroid-medication-could-be-added-to-banned-substance-list-1436221098"To date (April 2015), however, there has not been enough scientific information available to suggest it should be added"http://www.wsj.com/articles/in-rebuff-to-usada-wada-declines-to-ban-thyroid-medication-1443568862"the expert committee reviewing recommendations ... had been analyzing research as recently as late August (2015) before arriving at their decision not to include thyroid hormone"For USADA and UKAD (and the public) to succeed in their appeals, they must provide more "scientific" evidence, enough to convince a science advisor and a committee of experts to reverse their opinions. WADA's current position:"members of WADA’s expert committee were near consensus that thyroid hormone doesn't significantly pose a harm to health, and doesn't provide any performance enhancement effect"and from a practical standpoint detection of abuse is not clear:"the range of what is perceived to be normal thyroid function varies from person to person and is difficult to standardize"http://www.wsj.com/articles/in-rebuff-to-usada-wada-declines-to-ban-thyroid-medication-1443568862In an earlier article, dated 2010, suggesting high thyroid levels could be an indicator of HGH use, WADA advisor, NY associate professor of medecine summarizes:"(WADA) periodically considers (before 2010) adding thyroid hormones to the list of substances prohibited in sports abiding by the WADA code, which includes all Olympic sports""WADA has been reluctant to classify thyroid hormones as performance-enhancing drugs because they are naturally occurring substances.""It is something that is not considered worth testing for, although it is worth keeping up with the science,"http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/thyroid-gland-good-indicator-human-growth-hormone-article-1.174940When reading Jo Pavey's criticisms of thyroid supplementation, she would still allow it for medical need. Similarly UKAD draws the line at "genuine medical need". This highlights a practical problem with detection:- Who gets to decide between genuine medical need or abuse? Jo Pavey? UKAD? clerk? Do we have to form an independent committee? Shouldn't that be fully licensed and practicing doctors diagnosing it, and controlling the dosage with prescriptions? How would it be different than we have today?- Since T3 and T4 are both naturally produced, and both hypo- and hyper- thyroidism can occur without exogenous supplementation, how do we detect thyroid supplementation has occured on otherwise healthy athletes without medical need?- If an athlete is only required to submit a TUE, with a valid doctor's prescription (e.g. from Dr. Jeffrey Brown, licensed to practice endocronologist), practically speaking, what will change besides extra paperwork and extra lab tests?I found the recent quotes from Ryan Hall interesting -- supplementing thyroid was OK, while supplementing testosterone, even with a prescription, crosses a moral boundary. Ryan thinks T3 and T4 supplements are not in the same category as T.

SlowFatMaster wrote:

I was recently rereading the 300+ pages of JK stuff and came across this on page 88:

"The monocarboxlylate transport (MCT) proteins are instrumental in this process, specifically the MCT-1 and MCT-4 "isoforms," whose expressions are increased via certain types of training and associated recovery stages. Expression of these isoforms during training is also dramatically increased by supplementation with testosterone and by thyroid hormone."

Not sure where he got this information, but if it is true, thyroid is a PED for sure.

Scroll down about halfway to the "Updated Wisdom of John Kellogg" area.

I figured that if expression of the MCTs is dramatically increased by thyroid hormone, then that makes thyroid hormone a PED.

Don't think Rupp will Medal in 2016 unless WADA bans whatever Farah and top Kenyans are taking.