Steve Magness Issues Passionate Rebuttal To Alberto Salazar’s Open Letter

Does EVERYONE here assume that Nike as a company are an idiot organization?

The brand took a huge blow over the Lance Armstrong doping case. They can't have that happen again. If I was the leading executive at NIKE I'd long ago had Alberto and Galen secretly investigated without them knowing and then under a nice cover story separated one or both from NOP if guilty of anything illegal.

They are both still there with Nike's full support - so either they have investigated and they're both clean, or they haven't investigated, which in that case is on the borderline of semi-criminal neglect towards their shareholder's best interrest.

I'd say they're not an idiot organization and therefore I conclude that Alberto and Galen haven't done anything illegal. End of story.

Freud PR soldiers are getting desperate. They are sqirming like their client Salazar.

rojo wrote: Did you listen to Derrick's interview last night?

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6586140

He clearly thinks they've crossed the ethical line.

Rojo, I'm pretty sure that wasn't at all what Derrick was implying. I think it takes a strong confirmation bias to walk away from that interview thinking Derrick was accusing NOP of anything.

bkrunner wrote:

rojo wrote: Did you listen to Derrick's interview last night?http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6586140

He clearly thinks they've crossed the ethical line.

Rojo, I'm pretty sure that wasn't at all what Derrick was implying. I think it takes a strong confirmation bias to walk away from that interview thinking Derrick was accusing NOP of anything.

I don't see where he was "clearly implying" anything. Rojo, you do realize this is a National Event and Derrick's only concern is his running.

Would you want to be coached by either of these guys?

rojo wrote:

How did Kara get the Cytomel in a handwritten vial? Dr. Brown says it didn't come from him. To me, it's clear that as Jackie Areson Salazar handed out prescription drugs like it was candy.

Rojo....are you being serious? Are you also intentionally trying to misrepresent the facts as well? The answer is obvious. You are twisting the facts purposefully......you need to stop.

Rupp had just got a prescription filled for Cytomel. Brown said Kara should start taking some immediately. Salazar was on his way to Korea. Nowhere did Salazar say that Brown hand wrote on a bottle. Seems pretty straight forward...they took some of Rupp's Cytomel and put it in another bottle and wrote Cytomel in it, which at the point would be the responsible thing to do rather than giving her an unlabeled bottle. Would it have been better to get a prescription filled in her name labeled correctly? Yes. Maybe it's not by the book to share prescriptions, but when the dr. tells you someone else can take the exact same medicine you already have with someone else, what's the big deal? What's the big deal about hand writing on it? That's absolutely ridiculous to even include as anything note worthy.

Thank You! wrote:

hobbyjoggist wrote:

Didn't every LRC'er already know that Al Sal (and everyone else with the money/sense) was doing everything they could to get every possible advantage, so long as it wasn't going to get them popped for a rules violation? Its not glamorous, but its what the job calls for. It is Rupp's job to run as fast as he can. Its Al Sal's job to make that happen. If NOP is doing anything short of 100% of what is allowed given their resources, than they are doing their job badly.

Thank You for nailing down the issue to this one single obvious paragraph.

Just so everyone is clear, that means dosing teenagers with exogenous Testosterone is okay. exogenous Testosterone is okay, IVs are okay, taking prescribed medication to the individual's human limit not a therapeutic dose is okay.

No age limits, male or female.

You are all good with that. Right? Because that means your kid is going on a doping program to be nationally competitive.

No Rojo, Salazar did not hand out prescriptions like it was candy. This is something you have made up in your head. Rupp's prescription was filled by Dr. Brown.

i literally can't believe this wrote:

Convicted of what? 17 athletes have come forward but without a SINGLE LEGITIMATE DOPING CLAIM. Your bias is unbelievable, and honestly a total joke.

It honestly seems like you are hoping that they are doping just so you can say that they got caught. In your mind, you never thought for a second that they were clean, even if there isn't any legitimate evidence to say anything otherwise. What you're doing is not healthy for the sport. Accusing America's best shot at distance running of doping is not what people need, and kinda makes you look ridiculous.

The Epstein article comes out and on LRC there is a nonstop feeding frenzy of how it proves that all NOPers are dopers." Led by the BroJos highlighting everything that casts NOP/Salazar/Rupp in a negative light. Some protest that all Epstein has done is repackage a bunch of old claims, many (most, all?) which had already been considered by USADA. They are NOP fanboys. So the mob continues to run wild, every highlighted quote (was there an exception?) on the home page is some accusing or inferring something is rotten in NOPmark (even when substantial figures in T&F are making more cautious or even supportive statements on Salazar/NOP).

Salazar respond now, what's taking so long, answer every charge...the drum beat continues. Then Salazar provides a two-page response that doesn't just make claims, but provides documentary evidence and context. Epstein hurriedly (and disingenuously) responds by basically with " my sources still say", accuses Salazar of addressing claims that the great Epstein didn't raise and doesn't even make any effort to look at claims/evidence Salazar provided that called into question Epstein's reporting - and ends with a gratuitous quote of Areson accusing Salazar of handing out Rx like candy (based only on Areson's claim).

Now several days later after the mob realizes that the Epstein repackaging old old stories is really starting to smell bad, as the credibility and believability of Magness, Goucher and others is taking a severe beating RoJo is reduce to stating essentially that there never was proof and it's all really just been accusations. But there were quite a few (even if they were old and had been reported to USADA). Hey why are all you folks looking for some semblance of journalist integrity, balance in addressing complex issues and basic fairness in an innocent until proven guilty so angry/disappointed/demanding?

Magness and Goucher seem to have nothing to do but make emotional statements. And the BroJos, holding empty gas cans, are trying to spin this like they had nothing to do with the burned down building behind them.

Actually, rojo is citing an interview with Areson. If anyone is making that statement up, it would be her. That being said, these prescriptions are being doled out by the Dr. Brown who is a subject in this article:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323550604578412913149043072

Make what you will of his readiness to prescribe drugs where other physicians won't:

"According to American College of Endocrinology literature, the range of normal TSH level is broad, from 0.5 to an upper limit of near 5, depending on a patient's gender, age and other factors. In practice, many endocrinologists consider TSH levels above 4—combined with symptoms such as fatigue—evidence of an underactive thyroid.

Brown and a small camp of other endocrinologists argue that thyroid insufficiency can be signaled by a TSH level as low as 2, for which Brown cites some recently published research. By their standards, about 10% of the population is hypothyroid—double the 5% that is cited by mainstream endocrinology.

Jeffrey Garber, American College of Endocrinology president, said hypothyroidism increasingly is being diagnosed in people who don't have it, by endocrinologists whom Garber labeled as "alternative." "The alternative crowd is saying, 'Gee, this is why you're not feeling better, because these [mainstream] doctors are clueless,' " Garber said. "

Family first wrote:

No Rojo, Salazar did not hand out prescriptions like it was candy. This is something you have made up in your head. Rupp's prescription was filled by Dr. Brown.

Dr. Brown. Too bad there aren't any other endocrynologists anywhere else in the U.S. to evaluate a person for thyroid malfunction. Nowhere else!

Al Salazar was in a position of authority, advising his athletes to exceed therapeutic doses of drugs acquired under TUE. Salazar was also sharing the exogenous Testosterone. Good thing IAAF is okay with IVs. That is a Nike doping program.

I am fully aware none of these things by themselves is a doping violation. We'll see Salazar in Rio.

Nike Oregon Project highlights how much doping the IAAF allows, and it's enough to dominate clean athletes. Again, Salazar knows the IAAF is okay with doping and is acting accordingly.

If the only thing that comes out of this story is a much wider understanding of how much doping is permitted, and permitted on children, then it is a good outcome.

magness fan in california wrote:

Even though I still don't really know if Salazer/NOP are guilty (though some of the stuff like hollowed out books, etc is highly suspicious), impressed by Magness. Unlike Salazar, did not resort to personal attacks in his response. His candor and sincerity comes through in the writing. Have always liked the guy since his day writing a HS running blog (some funny stories about running 100 mpw in zany Houston TX in the middle of summer). Just seems like a chill, down-to-earth dude. Magness, whether or not Salazar should be sanctioned, thank you for coming forward and promoting greater transparency to our sport. We do not want to become like cycling where everyone just rolls their eyes at the mere idea of a "clean" sport.

I recall his H.S.blog, it was good stuff. I also recall when he use to post on LR; I use to enjoy his posts even though I didn't always agree with him. At times his thinking and opinions clearly outweighed his knowledge and experience. In terms of re:" "Unlike Salazar, did not resort to personal attacks in his response." Magness is attempting to destroy the 40 year career and legacy of one of America's greatest athletes and coaches and send him to jail. - That's personal, very personal.

Rojo please ask Steve Magness about the following. Did Magness lie or did Epstein mischaracterize what Magness said?

+1 for this. I would love for the brojos to use their relationship with Magness to actually get us some info.There are parts of the Magness/Salazar back-and-forth that don't add up to me, and I definitely think we need more info if we're going to be convinced either way. So how about it, Rojo?

Bingo. Can we make this the QOTD tomorrow?

alanson wrote:

Would you want to be coached by either of these guys?

Yes! I've read Magness's book and his blog posts and listened to his podcasts. It's helped me drop my 5K time by nearly 2 minutes in less than 4 months. I wish I had had Magness as my coach in high school.

LetsRun.com wrote:

Hopefully, you haven't gone to bed yet.

We tried to get this up before USAs started but ran out of time.

A reward to those of you still up:

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/06/steve-magness-issues-passionate-rebuttal-to-alberto-salazars-open-letter-salazars-statements-actually-confirm-what-i-witnessed-and-what-i-told-to-the-bbcpropublica-reporters-in-their-documen/

Magness should have said everything he had to say in the BBC/PP article and let it go. Magness was probably going to be fired by the University of Houston anyway, he has now speeded up the process. AD's expect coaches to focus on coaching, this is certainly unwanted attention. Btw, Houston is a large school, in a large state, it is fully funded D1; why hasn't Magness been able to produce an NCAA qualifier in any event?

He has. It's in his reply yesterday. Why hasn't X produced an NCAA qualifier in any event in 3 years (with not X's own recruits)? X could be any number of coaches in D1, who would not necessarily be considered poor coaches. Who else besides Salazar has called Magness a poor coach, or criticized him in any other way? I haven't seen anyone else do so in print.

TrackCoach wrote:

Magness should have said everything he had to say in the BBC/PP article and let it go. Magness was probably going to be fired by the University of Houston anyway, he has now speeded up the process. AD's expect coaches to focus on coaching, this is certainly unwanted attention. Btw, Houston is a large school, in a large state, it is fully funded D1; why hasn't Magness been able to produce an NCAA qualifier in any event?

I'd also like to hear Magness' explanation of this.