DREW HUNTER TAKES DOWN GRANT FISHER IN BROOKS PR 2 MILE

Er... wrote:

Predictions like this are unsound. There is no accurate way to calculate an evenly-paced ideal performance based on a race with a fast finish. They may not have been able to sustain a mid 8:30s pace through eight laps for myriad reasons. I wish people on these boards would stop taking a result and trying to turn it into an alternate, predicted result.

Victor E Lapp wrote:

8:42 with a 55 finish is NASTY!

Mid-8:30s for both with even pacing.

Agree on prediction being unsound. 1 sec per lap faster is a LOT.

Agreed! Ritz tops Fisher! However, Ritz didn't break 4.

newname wrote:

If Brannigan was trying something like that he failed and ruined his own race.

Which is exactly what happened.

Brannigan, a repenting sinner? wrote:

newname wrote:

If Brannigan was trying something like that he failed and ruined his own race.

Which is exactly what happened.

If you have followed Mikey for the past 5 years you will see moments like this, he has never been afraid to try and go for it and lead, even when its not in his best interest to do so.

On the flip side on Sunday in St. Paul, MN he ran a 3:48.85 1,500

Would be nice to see "greats" 5k cross country race. To his credit, I don't think Fisher had been pushed much at Footlocker. I would still take LV or Ritz over Fisher in 5k as I think LV would have dropped Fisher with mid-race surge, and Ritz was just a baller who would kill himself to stay on LV. Hard to predict finish.

This is looking at it through the perspective that times are all that matters.

Rupp and Fernandez couldn't even win Foot Locker once.

Ritz ran 20 seconds faster than the others.

True, but I also don't think LV was pushed very hard. He jogged the last 200 meters of the 2011 FL and still was 14:59. I think at their best, LV and Ritz if they raced against each other would beat Reina's all time course record at Balboa.

DC Wonk wrote:

Would be nice to see "greats" 5k cross country race. To his credit, I don't think Fisher had been pushed much at Footlocker. I would still take LV or Ritz over Fisher in 5k as I think LV would have dropped Fisher with mid-race surge, and Ritz was just a baller who would kill himself to stay on LV. Hard to predict finish.

I'd believe Goucher would also beat Fisher.

Footlocker has a long enough history that we can see several examples of guys were "not pushed", but still ran fast times. Those runners had no question in their mind that they were the best runners in the field, so going for the win would have been unfulfilling.

If Fisher is one of the 5 best XC runners ever, why go into a race with a goal of just winning? That should be a guarantee, why not see what all of your training can get you among the greats of the last 35+ years?

Yes, I know that only Fisher's father is Canadian, while his mother is American, and that he came here as a child. Senator Ted Cruz is also an American since his mother is American, his father is Cuban, and just like Fisher he was born in Calgary, Alberto, Canada. Fisher and Cruz are both Americans since, just like me, they were born on foreign soil to an American parent. So, if Fisher wants to run for president some day, he's eligible. :-) As for Verzbicas, he came to the U.S. when he was 9, and he's an American. Anyone want to continue to argue that these two foreign-born kids aren't Americans so their high school records shouldn't count? Next nit-picking fool? Anyone? Anyone?

If he came here when he was 9, why the F@CK couldn't they figure out what the appropriate was for him to be in? Instead, we now have idiotic jacked up class records for FR and SO, then mysteriously no JR performances, and then some SR records for him the year after his SO records. Thanks a lot, dikbags!!

Shawn H wrote:

Yes, I know that only Fisher's father is Canadian, while his mother is American, and that he came here as a child. Senator Ted Cruz is also an American since his mother is American, his father is Cuban, and just like Fisher he was born in Calgary, Alberto, Canada. Fisher and Cruz are both Americans since, just like me, they were born on foreign soil to an American parent. So, if Fisher wants to run for president some day, he's eligible. :-) As for Verzbicas, he came to the U.S. when he was 9, and he's an American. Anyone want to continue to argue that these two foreign-born kids aren't Americans so their high school records shouldn't count? Next nit-picking fool? Anyone? Anyone?

Well, when my stepdaughter came to the U.S. at the age of 12, she spoke hardly any English. She just graduated from high school this month with a 3.5 GPA. I chose to have her start school in the 6th grade rather than the 7th because elementary school had a good ESL program, and I wanted to make it easier on her. So . . . she turned 19 two months before she graduated from high school. I don't know Verzbicas' whole story, but perhaps his parents did the same thing to help him adjust to school in the U.S. It really makes no difference and doesn't take away from his H.S. accomplishments, especially since he graduated from H.S. at the age of 18 after attending just three years. Smart as well as talented kid, obviously.

Now, sorry to get off-track a bit from the OP's topic. Back to Hunter and Fisher?

Great story. But did it screw up any class records? That was kind of the point. What ever year you end up graduating, the year prior should be considered your JUNIOR year (and the year before that is your SOPHOMORE year...and guess what the year before that is?). You can call yourself a 1st grader when you're 17 if you want to, but you shouldn't be able to set 1st grade records if your age is equal to a typical 11th grader's age. It's completely idiotic that people in general, but especially the owners of the records, aren't able to adjust to these rather basic situations. LV really ran his 14:18 5000m and 8:57 indoors as a sophomore-aged individual, not a freshman. He was 16 already! Still impressive, of course, but to consider it a "freshman class" record is completely deceiving and disingenuous.Is this that difficult to understand?

[quote]Well then WTF wrote:

Great story. But did it screw up any class records? That was kind of the point. What ever year you end up graduating, the year prior should be considered your JUNIOR year (and the year before that is your SOPHOMORE year...and guess what the year before that is?). You can call yourself a 1st grader when you're 17 if you want to, but you shouldn't be able to set 1st grade records if your age is equal to a typical 11th grader's age. It's completely idiotic that people in general, but especially the owners of the records, aren't able to adjust to these rather basic situations. LV really ran his 14:18 5000m and 8:57 indoors as a sophomore-aged individual, not a freshman. He was 16 already! Still impressive, of course, but to consider it a "freshman class" record is completely deceiving and disingenuous.

Is this that difficult to understand?

I do like the idea of age records in HS (and college for that matter). Isn't Edward Cheserek 21/22 and a college sophomore? What about his HS XC records all over the Northeast when he was 19?

Go back and look at the dream mile. Hunter was impeded TWICE in the final 200m. First Fisher cut in too early and caused Hunter to check up a little bit and then Branigan completely impeded him (should've been DQ'd but it didn't matter). Had Hunter been able to run a clean final 200m the finish would've been VERY close at the Dream Mile.

You have a point, but it's way, way out there. I guess I never cared about H.S. class records since all classes compete against one another in high school. I guess if you really get out in the weeds and worry about what the freshman, sophomore, etc. records are, well, you're really out in the weeds. But then some people on this forum get all concerned over whether so-and-so ran his PR when he was 17 and 9 months while so-and-so ran his PR when he was 18. As long as there is an age rule and someone was age-eligible, BFD, in my opinion.

Ann Arbor wrote:

Trust me ... I've never had a complaint of any kind, not one... go figure

ttc wrote:

Er... wrote:

Predictions like this are unsound. There is no accurate way to calculate an evenly-paced ideal performance based on a race with a fast finish. They may not have been able to sustain a mid 8:30s pace through eight laps for myriad reasons. I wish people on these boards would stop taking a result and trying to turn it into an alternate, predicted result.

Agree on prediction being unsound. 1 sec per lap faster is a LOT.

Victor E Lapp wrote:

8:42 with a 55 finish is NASTY!

Mid-8:30s for both with even pacing.

Glad to see legendary bonehead "conditions and pace don't matter" ttc weighing in.

Yeah, one second per lap would be like Bekele winning the Olympic 5000 with a 53 last lap in 12:49...oh wait...12:57???? Why was he in such lousy shape for Beijing??? He was in 20 seconds worse shape than his 12:37 WR??? The mind boggles....if you are an idiot.

Two kids run the FASTEST LAST 400 of any competitive 2-mile in high school history, and yet they are incapable of running faster with even pace? Try actually competing or coaching or just plain paying attention for a while before you post your incompetent opinions.

The fact the Drew Hunter as a junior won in 8:42 and beat a 3:59 miler and two time Footlocker champ is historic. But when you factor in the last 400 of 55 its all -time legendary status. That's never been seen in this country.

No high schooler has ever closed a two mile in that time as Hunter. And I would bet currently there aren't more than a dozen D1 college runners that can do that.

Both of those guys are able to run 8:35 right now being pulled along at an even pace. Jeff Nelson ran 8:36 in 1979 which was the high school record for 29 years and did it in a pro race. And he was no where near that capability as a junior. And over 100 miles a week by his junior year.

Greatest high school two mile race ever. Third greatest high school 2 mile performance ever by Hunter only behind Verzibicus's 8:29 and German Fernandez;s 8:34 solo from the gun.

And he's just a junior only training 65 miles a week with reportedly low quality.

What a prospect. I just hope his coaches, now and future, concentrate on a plan where he is maxing out at age 26 rather than 20 on a top college team going for NCAA team titles.