Could Symmonds beat Centro in a sit-and-kick?

Y Knot wrote:

dial it up wrote:

Ah, the brainless coward reappears.

So, you judge your value as a human being on your 5k time I see. Well, I guess there are more shallow ways that some folks go through life. Can't think of any off the top of my head but they are probably out there.

Nah, I use money, accomplishments, athletic ability, and my 5k time. Only losers like you think all people are made equal.

And thus you demonstrate yet again your complete lack of cranial capacity and integrity. If you had a brain you would understand that making assumptions about what other people think and then arguing against your own words is the mark of a brainless coward. (if you only had a brain...)[/quote]

I'm bored with you (yawn).

dial it up wrote:

Y Knot wrote:

Nah, I use money, accomplishments, athletic ability, and my 5k time. Only losers like you think all people are made equal.

And thus you demonstrate yet again your complete lack of cranial capacity and integrity. If you had a brain you would understand that making assumptions about what other people think and then arguing against your own words is the mark of a brainless coward. (if you only had a brain...)

I'm bored with you (yawn).[/quote]

So?

said88 wrote:

The Stone Cutter wrote:

Aside from Lagat and El G, here are a few others that come to mind:

Nick Willis - 1:45.54, 3:29.91 (1500m)

Andres Manuel Diaz - 1:45.84, 3:48.38 (mile)

Venuste Niyongabo - 1:47.28, 3:46.70 (mile)

David Moorcroft - 1:46.64, 3:49.34 (mile)

Haron Keitany - 1:49.86, 3:48.78 (mile)

Craig Mottram - 3:49.34 (mile), only listed 800m is 1:52.90, although I am sure he could go faster but nowhere near 1:45 in an open 800m

I am sure there are others. So, no, you do not necessarily have to be a sub-1:45 800m guy to be a fast miler with a great kick at the end of races. You just need to be a fast miler with a great kick.

Niyongabo has had a much better 800m PB:

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/Overall.html

But I agree with your conclusion.

Great link, friend! I have never seen such comprehensive information on one spreadsheet before.

Obviously some others (including some all-timers) on that list that jump out:

Haile G - 1:49.35, 3:31.76i (1500m)

Sydney Maree - 1:48.11, 3:29.77 (1500m)

Jim Spivey - 1:46.5, 3:49.80 (mile)

Eamonn Coghlan - 1:47.78, 3:49.78 (mile)

Daniel Komen - 1:47.4, 3:29.02 (1500m)

Mo Farah - 1:48.69, 3:28.81 (1500m)

Galen Rupp - 1:49.87, 3:50.92i (mile)

Like Mottram, I think Mo and Galen can both go a bit faster over 800m but nowhere near 1:45. Same for Haile. But all of them could drop a 26 last 200m and even low 51-52s last 400m at the end of honest races.

versus

You've got to be kidding. Aouita, Morceli, Ovett, Coe, Cram, Kiprop, and Souleiman against who? If you're going to bet on Moorcroft or Mottram in a mile against them at any pace, you're smoking crack.

The only ones on that list with half a chance are Niyongabo and Willis, and Willis has already shown that his kick, although competent, is not in the same league as Kiprop and Souleiman. The reason why is simple, they are just too fast for him.

I repeat again, it's a simple fact - not a logical proposition - the vast majority of fast milers and great kickers ran sub 1:45. I expect to see inflammatory, wishful and insulting reactions to this on a distance-oriented forum, but to see someone dredge up a B-list of slower milers and 5000 runners and call them great kickers is just ridiculous. You're only proving my point by scraping the bottom of the barrel like that.

Here's another real all-time great kicker: Abdi Bile. He closed the 1987 WC 1500 in 1:46.0. Nobody had a freaking chance. What are your "kickers" gonna do with their 1:47 and 1:49 and 1:45.8 PR's? And how did Bile do it, because his PR was 1:43.6. He was faster than them.

Pure, blazing, rip-snorting speed makes a kicker. It's the base. No speed, no great kicker.

The Stone Cutter wrote:

Great link, friend! I have never seen such comprehensive information on one spreadsheet before.

Obviously some others (including some all-timers) on that list that jump out:

Haile G - 1:49.35, 3:31.76i (1500m)

Sydney Maree - 1:48.11, 3:29.77 (1500m)

Jim Spivey - 1:46.5, 3:49.80 (mile)

Eamonn Coghlan - 1:47.78, 3:49.78 (mile)

Daniel Komen - 1:47.4, 3:29.02 (1500m)

Mo Farah - 1:48.69, 3:28.81 (1500m)

Galen Rupp - 1:49.87, 3:50.92i (mile)

Like Mottram, I think Mo and Galen can both go a bit faster over 800m but nowhere near 1:45. Same for Haile. But all of them could drop a 26 last 200m and even low 51-52s last 400m at the end of honest races.

Maybe you can find some other useful statistics on my site:

I think some of the athletes which you list are little bit misleading, since their 800m PB definitely doesn't represent in any way their capabilities at the distance (for example Gebrselassie definitely could have run much faster (but unlikely sub 1:46), also Farah (but unlikely sub 1:45)). But still your point definitely is true.

Abdi Bile hasn't closed the Rome '87 finale in 1:46,0.

I guess you missed the second list I posted with the help of Said88. B-list? Haile G, Mo Farah, Eamonn Coghlan, Sydney Maree, Daniel Komen?

As far as the first list, I wasn't aware that 3:46-3:49 milers were scraping the bottom of the barrel. And I think you should research Niyongabo before you dismiss his talent.

As far as the second list, true, maybe these A-class guys weren't classic milers, but I definitely would fear them at that distance and I definitely would fear their kicks in a championship style race.

My greater point is, you stated that to be a fast miler you need to be a sub-1:45 800m guy with rip snorting speed. If we can agree that 3:28-3:31 (1500m) or 3:46-3:49 (mile) are fast mile times, then I think you should reconsider your stance.