No Berlin wrote:
Berlin is for fagboyz. The hierarchy goes like this:
1. Mountain running/ultra
2. Marathons/Halfs
3. Long distance race walking
Lol. The men raced in Berlin.
No Berlin wrote:
Berlin is for fagboyz. The hierarchy goes like this:
1. Mountain running/ultra
2. Marathons/Halfs
3. Long distance race walking
Lol. The men raced in Berlin.
lederhosen wrote:
No Berlin wrote:Berlin is for fagboyz. The hierarchy goes like this:
1. Mountain running/ultra
2. Marathons/Halfs
3. Long distance race walking
Lol. The men raced in Berlin.
+10
Sage, max, Killian all took on the same race, none who could defeat perhaps the real GOAT ... Matt carpenter's pikes peak ascent record
Matt Carpenter's Pikes record is insane...untouchable. NOBODY is going up that in 2:01 clean (at least as the trail/route stands now).
Interesting is that Matt's best at Mt. WA was only like 59-mid - a time that both Joe Gray and I have beat. So flat-out climbing at 12% grade (for an hour) and Joe Gray is the fastest American at Mt. WA...over 1-min faster than Carpenter.
Carpenter was also "only" a 2:19 marathoner. His Leadville 100 record is for sure possible to take down..tough but believable that somebody could do it at some point. Not the Pikes record though!
Joe has gone like 2:05-2:06 in the Ascent only. I've won Pikes Ascent in 2:10....totally dialed maybe I could go 2:08 (but I haven't so no need to speculate). My Vo2max is pretty low anyway.
Matt Split 2:01 en route to his marathon record!...that means his descent was also just nasty. When Killian won Pikes Marathon he went up in like 2:16 or so I believe. That is one record that is not going down....at least not by any clean runner IMO.
Carpenter's Leadville record 15:42:59 will be broken one day. Carpenter was far from his prime. He was 41 years old. If he raced this when he was 31 years old it would be a lot faster time. I'm really impressed with his North Face San Francisco 50 miler result from 2008. He was 44 years old & won the race beating out Geoff Roes, Kyle Skaggs etc. Far from his prime!!!
Matt won in 6:49:33. About 50 minutes behind him was Michael Wardian 7:38:00.
What a joke! Any African with a decent amount of training can beat Jornet or any other so called mountain runner. There is no money and thats the ONLY reason the Africans dont compete.
Ukrunr wrote:
You think an African road runner has the balls, physiology, training background etc. etc. its ridiculous to think.
.
I'm sure a lot of sub 2:20-2:15 marathon guys could clean up in a lot of ultras and trail races (and mountain races). Sometimes the 2:25 guy beats the 2:15 guy. I've seen Killian drop low 5-min miles with pretty good form during trail marathons...he's for sure not the best flat-out climber, but he is probably one of the best (if not the best) technical downhill runner ever. Really depends on the event though. Killian does races where you are actually climbing with your hands (and can fall of a cliff and die)....very technical stuff. He also does UTMB and Mont Blanc Marathon (a lot more "runnable"). I've seen 2:13 and 2:14 marathon guys get humbled at these events. For sure having a high Vo2max helps and marathon background helps though.Comrades has some faster guys (road ultra)..even sub 2:10 marathoners. It's over $30,000 to win. Even TNF50 in SF that Carpenter won has always been $10,000 to win. It's not like these races have "no money." A sponsorship deal can be very lucrative as well as international travel perks etc. I think a lot of East Africans just don't know about mountain-ultra-trail running... (or don't have the financial opportunities to "mountain race in the Alps" or try to qualify for Western States/Leadville etc.). It is obviously a very niche part of distance running. There are barriers to entry and you need more gear/nutrition and money to race/travel/ in Europe. A lot of them would be great at it for sure!
Tommy2Nuttz wrote:
What a joke! Any African with a decent amount of training can beat Jornet or any other so called mountain runner. There is no money and thats the ONLY reason the Africans dont compete.
Ukrunr wrote:You think an African road runner has the balls, physiology, training background etc. etc. its ridiculous to think.
.
Um, I beg to differ. Jornet has already beaten tons of your amazing Africans in races. Just left them there, in the dust, quivering, wondering how they just got destroyed so badly.
tommy nonutz wrote:
Um, I beg to differ. Jornet has already beaten tons of your amazing Africans in races. Just left them there, in the dust, quivering, wondering how they just got destroyed so badly.
Well then it's about time he got promoted so he can actually race people we've heard of.
S. Canaday wrote:
That is one record that is not going down....at least not by any clean runner IMO.
Excuse my ignorance, but why is it assumed that Carpenter was clean? I'm sure the 1993 trail/ultra scene had next to no incentive to dope, but people have done stranger things. Such a record is so untouchable that it sounds too good to be true.
For the record, I was born a couple years after Carpenter's record was set so I have no background in this whatsoever. I am in no way trying to defame the guy. Just sounds too good to be true to me.
Per Wikipedia
After signing with Fila Skyrunners in 1993, he won either thirteen[5] or fifteen[3] of the seventeen high altitude marathons he entered, setting records at both 14,350 feet (4,370 m) (with a time of 2:52:57) and 17,060 feet (5,200 m) (a time of 3:22:25).
I believe he has one of the highest VO2 ever recorded for a runner. I’m decent fast but probably couldn’t break 8 hours for a marathon @ 5,200 meters.
Jake87 wrote:
Per Wikipedia
After signing with Fila Skyrunners in 1993, he won either thirteen[5] or fifteen[3] of the seventeen high altitude marathons he entered, setting records at both 14,350 feet (4,370 m) (with a time of 2:52:57) and 17,060 feet (5,200 m) (a time of 3:22:25).
I believe he has one of the highest VO2 ever recorded for a runner. I’m decent fast but probably couldn’t break 8 hours for a marathon @ 5,200 meters.
There are many runners with high(er) VO2 max that wouldn't be able to do that (especially the 5200m marathon time). Could it be purely mental?
I don't think Kilian is beating African athletes nor Americans for that matter on a consistent basis. Kilian did not run the world mountain champs, those guys from Africa would destroy him. Keep in mind Joe gray from USA destroyed Kilian in Norway in uphill race (skala op) and this year Gray was 4th to 3 African athlete! Keep in mind skala is very steep and still Gray crushed him. Imagine the day when Kenyans do ultra as they do the world's? Records will go down instantly
perhaps a key is to get the africans to break 2 hours at pikes peak prior to the 2 hour marathon. sage and your american gang of friends... how about getting into promotions/race productions. you have the gang of sponsors, talk them into flying the top guns to pikes to have an all out attempt at the record. wish it where the mountain running championships
el toro wrote:
Killian definitely has 2:10 speed. Probably could go 2:05 with a couple years of just marathon training in his prime. You're right he couldn't keep up with the 2:02-2:04 guys, but you have to understand that he is built for longer distances.
The guy's amazing but I wouldn't go this far. He's a specialist in running ultras in the mountains. It's a completely different skill set. Much of your time is spent power hiking up 30% grades. I'd even give Walmsley the edge in a road race over Killian.
Good stuff Sage and don't forget the Kiwi, Jonathan Wyatt, who holds the Mount Washington record(56 and change). Pretty sure it was a bad weather year as well. He was/is a stud: Olympic marathoner, multi-time world mountain running champ, and high elevation racing stud. Don't believe he ever attempted Pikes Peak which is a shame.
Jono Wyatt did the Pikes Peak Ascent in 2016. 11th overall 2:34:16. Joe Gray was first in 2:05:28. 12th overall & first female was Kim Dobson in 2:34:39.
I would take a prime Jono against a prime Joe Gray anyday!
Jono
“If I’d really tried 10 years ago, and trained at altitude, I might’ve gotten close to that record,†Wyatt said. “But it’s a legendary record, I’d say.â€
What I don't get is why Sage says stuff like, "Matt ONLY ran 59-min at Mount Washington.." dude, he ran it once in his prime, shattered the record, and moved on. There have only been a dozen or so sub-1hr finishes. That's like saying Ryan Hall ONLY ran 59-min when the WR is 58:23.
Also, in regards to Pikes... Matt Carpenter has stated that he knew every rock, every inch, every angle on that course. It was his backyard. Tough to beat a hometown advantage.
That "D" class african was DOPING.
http://wmra.ch/index.php/news/619-positive-drug-test-changes-world-championships-results