HADD Base Training Plan Help

Hi, I haven't posted here in a while, and I'd like to give you an update as to how HADD has worked out for me...

Early in June, I was improving quite a bit, with my easy pace (HR 140-145) in the 9:20s, but after a week at a camp (little running) I came back, and could barely hold a 9:50 pace. My HR would skyrocket to 150s after 1st mile. I felt like crap throughout most of my runs. I finally had a blood test a week later, and found my iron and ferritin was low (not anemic, but low. Ferritin was 27, iron was 47)

I started supplementing, and that first week, ran a 5K (4th of July) and got a 19:05. (not very good time, but way better than last year's 20:23). I finally started training the following week, and interestingly, it turns out, I've been running too slow! I read an older HADD thread, and began running at 8:50-ish pace on my easy runs that week. My heart rate was in the high 150s, but I got more out of them.

THAT SAME WEEK, my pace went from 8:50 at 158 HR to 8:33 at same HR. (literally in one day), and all my other paces followed too. I ended up running 35 Miles that week after a layoff. (also did a tempo that Friday, and was running 6:30 pace for 5 miles! Felt so good)

Finally, this week, Wednesday morning, I ran a mile trial, and ended up running a PR of 4:55!!! Strangely, I wasn't tired, and I felt like I could've gone much longer, but couldn't go faster for some reason.

That same afternoon, I ran another 45 minute easy run (5K+3 min) a little earlier than usual (had church). It was hotter, so I knew I'd run slower...Wrong! :)

Ran 8:07 pace at a 158 HR!

Somehow, I went from 8:50s at 158 HR to 8:14 at 152 HR (and I think I'd run 7:50s at 158). I was amazed, ALL my paces for everything improved by almost a minute in A WEEK. I don't know whether that was my iron, or just running easy runs faster. Currently, I ran 40 miles this week and couldn't do a long run due to pain up my right thigh muscle. (Don't want an injury at all, think It's sore, but hurts a quite a lot).

I have a 5K next Saturday, and look to beat my PR of 18:24. (last year I ran 19:25 at that same race).

Anyways, my 140-145 pace is now supposedly 8:40s (haven't ran at that HR in a while). Whether it's my iron, or B12, I'm feeling much better, and legs feel "bouncier" when I walk. Never felt this good in a LONG time. (or ever).

Thanks for everyone (especially Pete) for helping me out here! Really appreciate it.

Wish me luck next week :)

rekrunner wrote:

If you are in high school, building up to 70 mpw looks like a good target.

Don't worry about weekly details. Just mileage and endurance and stamina.

Don't worry at all about losing speed, and ignore everyone who tells you to worry about it. You are trying to fix a bigger problem. You don't need speed over the summer, and not really even for cross-country. It only takes a few weeks of training to get your speed back when you need it, and your built up stamina will help you gain more speed.

What sort of speed? You need to make sure you have speed when you need it. You need to put the building blocks in place to make sure you can develop your speed in say 8 weeks, if indeed you can.

That might mean strength, flexibility, short hills etc.

Speed means different things to different people. Speed to a 5km runner might mean repeat 400s at 2km speed. Speed to an 800 runner might mean 100 speed.

If you want to maintain speed in base training, you need sessions devoted to it. I'd suggest once a fortnight do some real speed stuff.

Great News!

Just ran a 17:55 at a local 5K, finally broke 18!

(beating last year's 19:24)

Took 30 seconds off my old PR, my splits were:

Mile 1: 5:22

Mile 2: 5:56

Mile 3: 5:56

Final .11: BEAST MODE

I went out too fast (I was feeling really good), so the last 2 miles hurt quite a bit. (3rd mile was HELL). BUT my last 2 miles were the same for once, and this was the first time that ALL 3 miles were under 6 minutes.

Sorry I've been away for a couple weeks and didn't see this question until now. What sort of speed? All sorts. Every kind of speed for every kind of person. Initially, nothing faster than LT pace.I don't disagree with anything you said, but keep in mind the original context:- 17 year old currently (beginning of May) running 24-31 MPW- Complaining about weak endurance ("poor relationship" at longer distances)- Asking questions about Hadd's Phase II know many don't agree with this, and somehow fear that a temporary neglection of speed will become permanent, but in this context, we do not need any speed, and we do not want to maintain speed in base training. Later yes, even year round, but just not now. He wants to solve an endurance weakness, and attempting to maintain speed would only interfere.Hadd defined initial paces as 35-50 beats less than HRmax. This might mean initially, the fastest pace is something like 2 hour race pace. Eventually you progress and bump things up gradually, 5 beats at a time, but only after you've "mastered" the slower paces.In our OP's case, I imagined for him a scenario like this:May-Aug: 16 weeks of mileage buildup and base training at easy to slow tempo pace, with progression defined by Hadd's written guidelines. He also wanted to do local 5Ks. It's not Hadd, but in my opinion, once a month wouldn't hurt, even if it violates Hadd's Phase I guidelines. Strides also don't hurt (low volume).Sep-Nov: Cross-country season -- training and racing as usual. Regular 5K races will bring race ready fitness by end of season. Coach might introduce speed sessions anyway, but 5K races alone should be enough.Nov-Feb: Back to more Hadd base-building progression.March: Now, and forever thereafter, he will be much better prepared for a balanced training introducing and maintaining appropriate speed for selected race events.

Congrats on your new PRs, for both the mile and 5K.

Hadd does mention both points you've discovered(see Pete's comments previous page):

1) Younger runners might find 75% HR too slow at first, and can bump up to 80% HR. While I'm in favor of slowing down easy runs, running 9:20 is pretty slow, even for me -- speeding up to 8:30-8:45 is still slow enough (although you also mentioned high temperatures before).

2) Every 6 weeks or so, you'll see quantum improvements in performance (what he called "holy sh*t" moments).

rekrunner wrote:

Congrats on your new PRs, for both the mile and 5K.

Hadd does mention both points you've discovered(see Pete's comments previous page):

1) Younger runners might find 75% HR too slow at first, and can bump up to 80% HR. While I'm in favor of slowing down easy runs, running 9:20 is pretty slow, even for me -- speeding up to 8:30-8:45 is still slow enough (although you also mentioned high temperatures before).

2) Every 6 weeks or so, you'll see quantum improvements in

performance (what he called "holy sh*t" moments).

Haven't replied in a while, but I feel I need to add this:

I ran a 16:49 in XC Districts on Oct.24 2013, it was my biggest PR and sub 17 for the first time! Thank you HADD! (Splits: 5:02, 10:36, 16:14; 16:49) Yes, I took my 2 mile PR from 11:11 to 10:36 in the middle of a 5K race!

HADD took my PR from 18:24 to 16:49 in 2 months of 30-40 mpw.

I did 30-40 mpw over winter, but since I've been on a low-dose beta blocker since August (for SVT) I ran the old fashioned way, by feel (7:30-7:50 pace) not HR.

Hopefully today I can come off of it...

Unfortunately, I'm injured right now so I'm currently missing my senior track season /:

Anyone know the difference between a shin splint and a stress fracture?

Thanks!

wow great improvements

If you didn't get injured I wonder what you would be running now.

Umm no wrote:

If you didn't get injured I wonder what you would be running now.

16:58. 16:58 is what I'm running right now (yesterday morning)

So I've nearly completed an entire round of phase 1 training (60 mpw) and got my 140-145 HR pace to the 7:40s for 1 hour and my work day paces are consistent at the same HR's.

I read what Pete wrote pages back, but now my burning question is, when I finish phase 1, then what?

How the hell do I put Phase 2A together???

Umm no wrote:

If you didn't get injured I wonder what you would be running now.

16:58. 16:58 is what I'm running right now (yesterday morning)

So I've nearly completed an entire round of phase 1 training (60 mpw) and got my 140-145 HR pace to the 7:40s for 1 hour and my work day paces are consistent at the same HR's.

I read what Pete wrote pages back, but now my burning question is, when I finish phase 1, then what?

How the hell do I put Phase 2A together???

BUMP!

Bump!

bump!

Sub16_5K wrote:… now my burning question is, when I finish phase 1, then what?

How the hell do I put Phase 2A together???

I wrote out, at great length, both here on LR and over at TNFnorth, what this looked like in my own narrow experience. For the life of me I can't locate either discussion, maybe somebody else remembers where the bodies are buried...

I would advise you not to sit on a diet for weight loss, but simply to play sports and eat healthy food https://www.giamcandep.vn/. Believe me if you eat protein in combination with fiber, you will quickly find a beautiful figure. This works for both women and men.

banned Pete wrote:

Sub16_5K wrote:… now my burning question is, when I finish phase 1, then what?

How the hell do I put Phase 2A together???

I wrote out, at great length, both here on LR and over at TNFnorth, what this looked like in my own narrow experience. For the life of me I can't locate either discussion, maybe somebody else remembers where the bodies are buried...

Could this be the one?

Nice handle.

And thanks for that link. I was not aware of that thread. Super interesting read. Definitely one I will save.

Yeah that was it, thanks for digging it up I had no idea where it disappeared.

I havent seen a HADD thread in a long time.

HADD and SoM are 2 of the most reliable things on LR... that and @ssholish behavior in general.