New Japanese JR record for 100m... 10.01 seconds!

If you knew anything about sprinting, you would know that this result, on home turf, means exactly nothing.

Japan is notoriously cloistered. It is difficult at the best of times to get detailed information. You know exactly NOTHING about Kiryu.

And don't be a dipshxt, I said that there is a possibility that he is legit, but that I need to see more to be convinced. I have already raved about the quality of his 10.01--MUCH better executed than his 10.03 win--and said that he is possibly the most naturally talented short sprinter of all time.

Because I'm not an idiot, I don't discount the possibility of PED use. I NEVER discount that possibility, no matter what the athlete's gender, age, race, nationality, etc..

I will say this, however--that the possibility of him doping, even given his apparently extraordinary performance, is exceedingly lower because he is Japanese, than it would be if he were from any other nation I can think of.

But that possibility is still non-zero.

Bob: "Anyway, given Japan's spotless record, you'd have to be stark raving looney to bet that Kiryu is doping."

Nobody is BETTING that he is doping. I am simply leaving open the possibility. Given the extraordinary nature of his performance, you'd have to be stark raving looney to completely discount the possibility.

And yes, Japan keeps good records--excellent records, in fact, as far as school is concerned. I mentioned age as a possible factor because of the vanishingly small likelihood that he is doping, and because Japanese race timing has, in my memory, seemed excellent.

So again, where exactly was he born?

Flo'da--

He gripped in the final, as he felt Yamagata breathing down his neck.

Yamagata was reeling him in quite well, as Kiryu's form dissolved into minor chaos.

His 10.01 was much better executed--in fact, I would go so far as to say that it was great. Powerful, relaxed, extended, smooth. He could have used a better start/early drive and maybe finished .01 better, but it was very well done.

I agree that Carl was the 200 champ, along with Fredericks, followed closely by Marsh, had MJ not existed. Carl's 19.75 could have been a 19.67-19.70 that day, maybe 19.65, had he not windmill-celebrated 25m before the finish. He VISIBLY slowed down, and had no lean at all.

Lewis and Fredericks would have owned it for some time, in around the same clocking as, say, the X-man, just slightly slower than Dix and Gay.

Had Lewis focused on the sprints to the exclusion of the LJ, he may have gone even faster in the 200m.

It's not necessarily the surface, it is the length of the surface that is surprising in this case. Where does he do overdistance work? Does he do any at all? Even 100m? 120m?

Also, sustained training on dirt (depending on the kind of dirt) is a recipe for injury, especially to the feet and ankles.

IF this is all true, what happens when he gets to a real facility?

Yes, his coaching might be good, but he still runs a "Japanese-style" race, so it is not great IMHO--although his top-end seems less Japanese than other Japanese, so maybe the fact that the dirt is only 50m long is to his benefit, because they can't screw with his naturally beautiful form.

Geezer--

Yes he didn't look quite as good. Possibly due to fatigue though as the race was later the same day

Also does anyone have video they can post of the news story on Kiryu (with training) or the video of Su's 10.04?

Vid of Su:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjUknbNRyUk

Technically he wasn't as HGH was legal at the time. I think it should be legal still, I actually think all PED's should be legal as similar to narcotics when it's underground it's more dangerous for the user.

I didn't say he was using a BANNED PED, I said he was using a PED.

Which he most certainly was. He was enhanced. Unnatural.

There is no way he could have gone as fast as he did without the HGH.

People looking for other athletes comparable to Kiryu shouldn't look to Mennea, unless they believe that Kiryu is also enhanced and unnatural.

Let's get this thread back sprinting.

Any performance, or series of performances, that is WAY past the existing range of performances must be looked at with skepticism.

Currently we have all those old women's WR's, recently we have Radcliffe, Bolt, Merritt...and now Kiryu.

Each one of them is just as suspect as another, from a simple performance perspective. T&F has a history, within which there have been many great athletes--particularly the 100m.

Bolt comes along and demolishes obviously doped times; he is suspect.

Radcliffe comes along and produces a time that nobody has been able to get even near, before or since; she is suspect.

Merritt comes along and demolishes the absolutely consistent top-10 historic times, in a time that nobody has been able to get even near, and has an unbelievably stratospheric season later in his career; he is suspect.

Kiryu comes along and demolishes the youth WR in a time that nobody has been able to get even near, and then equals the junior WR while more than a year younger than the nearest WR co-holder, and a year-and-a-half younger than the other WR co-holder; he is suspect.

What, all of a sudden one is expected to give this absolutely extraordinary performance a pass, whereas we consider the others suspect, exactly why? Because he is young? Because he is Japanese? Because he is Asian?

Not a chance. I don't care about any of that stuff. I care about the performance, and how exceptional it is. For me, this performance is slightly less egregious than those of Bolt and Merritt; I don't know enough about marathon to feel comfortable about commenting on Radcliffe. It is less egregious only because the training status of junior athletes is likely to vary more than it does among the pro ranks occupied by Bolt and Merritt.

Kiryu might just represent that new vanguard of emerging athletes--those who have been manipulated prior to their introduction into the biologic passport system. I don't know. And neither do you. In other threads, I have said that this type of thing would be coming--the emergence of spectacular athletes who have not heretofore been subject to meaningful, or any, testing.

Has Kiryu been subject to such testing as a youth?

Expect to see more of this type of thing. Expect also to see some slightly older athletes emerging from the "youth" ranks to produce heretofore-unimaginable "junior" times, or emerging from total obscurity during "junior" ages to produce absolutely spectacular senior times.

Many of the posters here seem to have no idea what T&F is up against. It is a new era. I have been telling you that for a long time.

Consider this: what if he has been medically able to have been classified as "short for his age", and has received HGH? Do you know he hasn't? What if he has? WTF do YOU know? Nothing.

And that is the way it will be from now on, especially where the medical histories of youth and junior athletes are considered.

Who knows if these new athletes will be able to maintain their spectacular abilities throughout time--that will depend on when the interventions started, how training goes, the particular type of intervention, and training responses. In the event that we see a bunch of one-off performances, I hereby classify such athletes as "Special Edition", produced for a special occasion like the Olympics.

We have seen it already, and we will see it more often. Since Kiryu did this in relative obscurity, it could safely be concluded that we will see more of the same from him in the future, unless he is still not subject to meaningful testing and his interventions therefore remain ongoing (if they are happening at all).

I remain skeptical. I don't have any substantial evidence, even statistical circumstantial evidence, to support this skepticism--but I'm no chump fanboy either.

Only time will tell.

Stupid Japanese, they are garbage coaches and should get the amazing SPRINTGEEZER to help them before they butcher this talent.

"Having come this far, I want to become the first (Japanese) to run under 10 seconds," he said. "If I tune up thoroughly, I can run 10.00."

With his time at the top of this year's senior world list, Kiryu's next chance to beat the 10-second barrier will come on Sunday at the Seiko Golden Grand Prix, the third leg of the 15-round IAAF World Challenge series.

At Tokyo's National Stadium, he will race against seven others, three of whom have run under 10 seconds – Americans Mike Rodgers (9.85) and Mookie Salaam (9.97) and Bahama's Derrick Atkins (9.91) - [Powell's second cousin].

Kiryu's eyes are fixed on multiple world and Olympic sprint champion Bolt, whose 100m world record of 9.58 has stood since August 2009.

Despite the present gulf between the young Japanese talent and his hero, Kiryu can take solace from the fact that at this stage of his career, he is already faster than the younger Bolt – the Jamaican ran 10.03 when he was 21.

"I want to run alongside Bolt (at the worlds) and see how he is different from me," said Kiryu, who stands 1.75 metres (5ft 9in), a full 20 centimetres shorter than 26-year-old Bolt.

"I lack experience in competing on the big stage. I must gain more experience," said the youngster.

Kiryu takes five steps a second, compared with Bolt's 4.6-4.7. But his stride is shorter – Bolt's step covers nearly three metres toward the finish line.

Winter training saw him working on this, with low hurdles placed at longer intervals than usual in an effort to stretch his stride. He also built up his lower body by squatting.

Hopes for the young man are high in Japan, where he is just a whisker away from the Japanese record of 10 sec flat, set by Koji Ito in 1998.

"There is a 100 percent chance that the time will dip below 10 seconds this year," said Ito, now the sprint director at the Japan Association of Athletics Federations.

Kiryu ran 10.01 only in the process of peaking for the world championships in Moscow in August, Ito told the daily Nikkan Sports. "He will get better still if he experiences the worlds."

--

I think Bolt was already sub-10 with that first clocking, arguably getting close when he ran 19.93 at what 17? Bolt's progression has also been normal and not precociously young (I think his height did that itself) and stunted.

The HGH discussion reminds me of Lionel Messi - he had a growth deficiency fixed by FC Barcelona while growing up. I think this part of deficiency left him shorter than he would have been with always a normal level? But in football this is an advantage. In sprinting maybe the opposite would be true (e.g. Hyperthyroidism for growth and then normalising for strength and luck to have Bolt type fast twitch), but maybe this could be too much for the frame or lead to muscles too weak to be elite etc.

In Bolt's favour - WJC at 15, injured when he could have repeated at 17 (and even scored a medal in OG2004/been a clean winner along with Fredericks, Obikwelu, Powell etc.), surpassed as youngest WJC now by J.Gill - Discus from NZ - Only winner of all championships WYC, WJC, WC, {OG?} along with Valerie Adams and VCB and some others including Isinbayeva. Has no bronze medals - only 30 Golds and 5 silvers. Looking at his progression he underperformed in 2005,6,7 - Injuries, lack of perfect training or maybe adapting to the precocious growth (doubtful but possible) and MJ said of Bolt in 2003 - 'It's all about what he does 3,4,5 years down the line'.

ventolin^3 wrote:

Flo'da boy wrote:The WJR is by Darrel Brown of Trinidad and Tobago. Also 10.01 but with 0.0 wind. Yoshihide is ahead of Jeff Demps though (10.01 with +1.6)

may i add that i saw darrell's 10.01 in 1/4s of '03wc in paris on tv

he cruised it

he really shouda gone 9.95 ( maybe even 9.92/9.93 ) in the semi or final but "tightened" up in those

morally, the wjr shoud be at worst 9.95 & i woudn't consider any junior "better" until they run faster than that "basic"

But he didn't, so there are no morals involved. could have, should have, didn't.

If so we'd be looking at Asafa P in a different light.

The kid looked pretty good. Solid, not special start, great 30 - 60, and lost a little balance to the line but held up well. At 17 he has a chance. Unfortunate that he won't have the advantage of height. He's probably as tall as he going to get.

Forgot to mention that in that same WJC I saw Merritt beat Robles, so maybe Merritt underperformed for a while.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Let's get this thread back sprinting.

I don't care about any of that stuff. I care about the performance, and how exceptional it is. For me, this performance is slightly less egregious than those of Bolt and Merritt; I don't know enough about marathon to feel comfortable about commenting on Radcliffe.

I remain skeptical. I don't have any substantial evidence, even statistical circumstantial evidence, to support this skepticism--but I'm no chump fanboy either.

Luckily, what you think doesn't matter in the slightest, geezer.

for record hgh alone does ,very little for sprinting .

mennea,s performances were due to steroids like many others during that era , have heard that blood doped also and definitely helped with 200m .

as for japanese sprinter why cant he be doing what many other

young sprinters have done in nearly past 10 years ,

as it might be seen as nessary to compete .

how many fast juniors does it take for people to realise that something is up in the sprints ,all carribeans ,lemaitre ,gemili etc have benefited .

just because were very clean in terms of steroids ,does it mean clean with newer peds ,when clearly no consequenses and nobody will question them .

obvious that most gains from s4 if given at certain point in sprinters career.

HERE is one for you ,

is it a coincidence that bolt is just involved with new samsung s4

and has alot to thank his performances due to a certain sarm going by same name ,coincidense ,irony, whatever.

i wonder if kiryu uses the new SAMSUNG S4 !!!!

Kenteris?

This cat's 5'6" AT BEST.

more short people fighting for those inches by lying. How humorous.