Predictor wrote:
Let me give a simple answer instead of the 1000 word disertations that you seem to love.
Actual performances are more significant than implied potential.
Rudisha went from the dominant 800m runner of the current time to arguably the best of all time with his performance.
Same with bolt.
Blake's performance, according to you, suggested short people can run fast.
^ this ^
Predictor wrote:
Let me give a simple answer instead of the 1000 word disertations that you seem to love.
Actual performances are more significant than implied potential.
Rudisha went from the dominant 800m runner of the current time to arguably the best of all time with his performance.
Same with bolt.
Blake's performance, according to you, suggested short people can run fast.
ok? What does that have to do with the most significant performance of the year?
it has to be the algerian who won the 1500m in the olympics. yeah there was a bunch of WR this year but the algerian caused the most controversy thus making it the most significant performance of the year
Predictor wrote:
Let me give a simple answer instead of the 1000 word disertations that you seem to love.
Actual performances are more significant than implied potential.
Rudisha went from the dominant 800m runner of the current time to arguably the best of all time with his performance.
Same with bolt.
Blake's performance, according to you, suggested short people can run fast.
You've run out of all cards if you're pulling that out of your hat.
USUALLY actual performances are more significant but NOT always. If you can't agree to that than you're more moronic than i originally surmised. Blake's performance is part of that rare anomaly.
body master - it seems you're more enamored with Blake's height than T&F performances. I'm not sure if there's a list, anywhere, of world records for people under 5'11". :)
wtfunny wrote:
body master - it seems you're more enamored with Blake's height than T&F performances. I'm not sure if there's a list, anywhere, of world records for people under 5'11". :)
Let's just say i've been in the "trenches" and know from experience how demoralizing it is to live in the time of Bolt. You have no clue.
A lot of the athletes chalk his performances up to his long stride and "lucky" circumstances such as having been tall so early as a kid. He was still going through puberty at 15 and 6'5. More time to train with the longer limbs and get coordinated etc
Most people like him would have done a different sport.
I've seen and heard how people have reacted to Blake's run. There is a new vigor in many of the athletes which we'll see in 2013.
This thread is ridiculous. When was the last time a world record was set in the 800 without a rabbit? I think Juantorena in the '76 Olympics in Montreal.
Fair enough. You've made a good argument for the 4 x 100, but I think the interest in distance running has waned significantly in the last 25 years in the US and Europe because of the African dominance. From that point of view, Rupp's silver, and for that matter maybe Farah's golds, may change the distance running landscape more so than the American women's 4 x 100m will change the female sprinting landscape. We'll see.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Well, a couple of things on that:
First, there are many who believe that Rupp is juiced, just as there are many who believe that members of the W4x100 team are juiced--so if you're going to trash the W4x100 team, you should fairly consider Rupp at the same time.
Aside from that, though--because I am convinced that members of the W4x100 team are in fact juiced--the record is significant for the reasons that I have outlined, whether they are juiced or not.
There have been plenty of juiced athletes since the 80's, who haven't been able to come close to those records, let alone best them. Now you have Jeter who in 2009 was as good as FloJo ever was in the 100m except for the 10.49, Felix who has posted the best 200m time in history since Marion in 1998--the only other better ones were Ottey in 1990 and 1991, and FloJo in 1988--and even SAFP, who would have been only the 4th person ever in the 10.6's, with the slightest more puff of wind to add to the meager +0.6 she had.
My point is that even if they are juiced, they are coming closer to the records--which are all juiced themselves. Again, I don't know if what they are currently using is legal or not--there is a fair chance that it IS currently legal, and that people are suppressing its availability to delay the development of a good test by doping control authorities. Even if it isn't legal, neither are the records.
Drug cheats beating drug cheats IS significant. It may very well be the case with your beloved Rupp. We have to put the drug whining behind us, because it is a FACT, and it is entirely possible that every single T&F WR is assisted.
I'm not taking anything away from Rupp, I enjoy his running very much--and, the pool of white male distance runners may indeed be larger than the pool of female sprinters/middle distance runners--but to do something that was not believed possible is still IMHO more significant than doing something than doing something like Rupp did, because I don't think that his performance transcends the age in which he runs.
Of course, I could be wrong about that, his performance may resonate down throughout history--but the W4x100 WR most certainly WILL resonate down throughout history, which gives them the edge.
How will the American women's 4 x 100m WR affect middle distance runners?
Better passes?
One thing that hasn't been talked about much is John Drummond. This guy had the men and women's teams in London run technically better 4 x 100m races than I've ever seen. I hope he gets some love.
Many people would say you jerkoff USC fans are sausage polishers but I would differ. Felix Sanchez is over the hill yet not a doper. Felix never "apes" wanting to tear your head off. Felix has no steroid induced afflictions and allergies. Felix doesn't wear braces nor have acne. yet he won another Olympic Gold Medal.
USC 287 Olympic Medals wrote:
SC fan wrote:USC's 6 track/field medals and 25 medals overall at London 2012 makes it certain that Los Angeles will bid on the next available Summer Olympics.
The great part is that all of the stadiums, sub-ways, rail lines, airports, TV facilities, and hotels, necessary to host the Olympics and millions of tourists are already built and wide use today.
Security and anti-terrorism L.A. is unrivalled by any city in the world. LAPD SWAT teams can physically defeat, and tactically beat any Pentagon land, sea, and air special forces units i.e. USSOCOM units.
SCfan, what abot Felix's 2nd Oly Gold ? That old geezer Felix Sanchez should be in a wheel chair with an Oxygen bottle and he gets GOLD in London. Fight On ! for old SC.
Rudisha's 800 wire to wire World/Olympic record has no competition because of the unconventional way it was done. Ever other candidate performance was thoroughly planned and well executed to predictably spectacular results.
On the other hand, King David took the lead and dangled his crown, taunting anyone to try to hold on and snatch it away. He ran a strategy that, if he wasn't so utterly dominant, would have been perfect for a next-best to snatch the gold. For all the talk about Bolt's talent, he should study Rudisha for athletic showmanship and class.
In my mind, the two best track races ever run are Rudisha's London Olympic 800 and Bekele's Beijing Olympic 5k for the same reasons.
Perhaps you should start a thread titled "Most significant T&F performance of 2012 for short people"?
body master wrote:
Let's just say i've been in the "trenches" and know from experience how demoralizing it is to live in the time of Bolt. You have no clue.
A lot of the athletes chalk his performances up to his long stride and "lucky" circumstances such as having been tall so early as a kid. He was still going through puberty at 15 and 6'5. More time to train with the longer limbs and get coordinated etc
Most people like him would have done a different sport.
I've seen and heard how people have reacted to Blake's run. There is a new vigor in many of the athletes which we'll see in 2013.
"Ever other candidate performance was thoroughly planned and well executed to predictably spectacular results."
Can this exact thing not be said of Rudisha's 800m?
"For all the talk about Bolt's talent, he should study Rudisha for athletic showmanship and class."
Bolt has athletic showmanship to match anybody, including Rudisha--the negative-leaned 9.69 WR in the Olympic final is possibly the zenith of athletic showmanship.
Class, however, is all Rudisha's. Compared to him, Bolt is an absolute buffoon. I'm trying to figure out how "class" affects the significance of his performance, however.
rupp and farah olympic 10k
"How will the American women's 4 x 100m WR affect middle distance runners?"
The women's 400m and 800m WR's are squarely in the category of records that are affected by the new mentality. Although the 400m is most often considered a long sprint, some consider it a middle distance, especially for the women; and everybody considers the 800m middle distance.
Likewise the 1500m. Have you looked at the top 10 for women? The dates vary from 1980-1997, and among the athletes is 1 Romanian in Seoul, 2 Russians in the early 80's, and 7 Chinese, including the top 4, and the WR.
Nobody is yet closing in on the 1500m, however, as they are in the 100 and 200--the best recent performance is Selsouli in 16th place, 5.5 seconds back. A bit further is the Ethiopian Aregawi, followed by the turk Alptekin, in 21st and 22nd places respectively. Judging by the dates of the other top performances on the list, 2012 was a hopeful year, with Dibaba on the list as well.
What I don't know is whether or not Chinese records can be equated to East German/US records, for the purposes of hopefulness coming from the women's 4x100 WR. The US and east euro records were obviously steroid-fueled, and have been proven accessible by both the 4x100 and by Jeter individually--but what of the Chinese records? What exactly were they using, and can it be approximated by anything available today? I don't know.
I guess the good news is that if not the 1500m, then the 800m should be considered accessible.
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And Drummond? Yes, it appears that he has done an excellent job with the personnel with whom he worked. Like I said, look for him to be dismissed soon.
He did a particularly good job handling that pain-in-the-ass Tarmoh.
"Actual performances are more significant than implied potential."
I disagree in cases where the implied potential extends to a great many athletes, as in the women's 4x100, Rupp's race, and Rudisha's race.
In the history of the World, most people that have run under 9.70 have been under 6 feet tall.
Bolt is the anomoly, here. Not Blake.
Geezer - in 1993 the US were .12 outside that record. I think you're over-stating your case somewhat. Further, relays are affect more by technique; as the US well knows. Imo, while it doesn't at all diminish the significance or how impressive the race was, it does challenge the 'unbreakable' argument.
Nor are women "closing in on the 100 and 200" like you imply.
What is this "new mentality"? Women aren't anywhere NEAR the 400m record. Even Perec's time is over half a second away. Richards Ross is outside the wr by a second. Only 2 women have ever run within a second of Koch's time (the other was Cathy Freeman in her race against Perec).
I understand everything that you said.
However, I'm not making this up, this is coming from women I've talked to.
For my part, I did look at how close Jeter was to FloJo in the 100, and IIRC she is just as good, except for the windy 10.49
I know about the 400, but I'm telling you, some women say they have just such a "new mentality", as you put it. Maybe it's just pie-in-the-sky hope, but that's more than they have had in the past.
Heck, even some posters on this board played with the idea of whether or not Felix could now get the 200m WR--to which I personally responded "absolutely not", but it's not my attitude that counts.
My first thought is Merritt, but when I look at what Skeets and some others hurdlers were running many decades ago, it seems like the record was relatively weak. The same can be said for David Rudisha. Btw, I am only saying relatively weak based on the passage of time.
I would say the women's 4x100 with out a doubt, the USA handily beat a Jamaican team that contained of 3 of the fastest 100 meter sprinters ever. What is amazing is that they ran that time with an athlete who was formerly a LJ specialist, a 200m specialist and an athlete who has never run sub-11 or made an Olympic or WC 100m final. Btw, all of the women's sprint indivisual and relay records are very strong by any measure.
I was trying to figure out how thay were able to run that fast and I looked at about half dozen youtubes of USA 4x1s and Allyson Felix alway dominated her leg no matter who she was matched up against. Once Fleix gets up to speed, she is as fast as Price and Jeter. Madison who should have gotten smoked by Price, but she haned about even, Knight and Jeter were very solid and the handoffs weren't perfect but good.