Oh give me a break. So Salazar should have trained on a course similar to NYC before he ran it for the first time in1980, right?
Slow first half? That was by choice you bloke! When the gun goes off, everyone has the opportunity to run their own race.
They, and YOU, are complaining afterwards because things didn't workout their way.
What a bunch of excuse makers you people from the states are! Babies, big cry babies!
Shalane's under-performance reminds me of Ryan Hall in 2008.
She looks a lot younger. Still think another year or two at 10K would have given her a better medal chance. I understand about the money being better in the marathon/road racing circuit. I wish her the best.
markboen wrote:
Both of these runners are full of excuses, yet claim to have trained harder than ever before in their lives. They complained about the narrow streets and the turns. Was this marathon race course a secret? NO.
Actually, they could have set up a similar race course in Portland and practiced on narrow asphalt streets and turns. This race played out perfectly for them, e.g., rain, slow first half, asphalt streets. Tiki Gelana of Ethiopia probably doesn't train in the rain or on asphalt streets. Gelana fell down during the race, but she found a way to win in record time.
Their coach, Jerry Schumacher, looks foolish.
This shows how little you know! They did run a similar to London course in Portland, and also traveled to London to run on the actual course!
If you follow them at all, you would know that did in fact train harder than ever before, but it just wasn't enough to compensate for the poor conditions, pace of the race, and the fact that both runners started to cramp up near the end. No one knows how it could have been different if it hadn't been raining or if they hadn't cramped up.
My point is not that you aren't entitled to your opinion, but that it is uncalled for to be so rude and over-critical in your misrepresentation of the facts. I'm sure you could do better as a runner and a coach, but you didn't qualify for the Olymics nor did you get the chance to act as a coach to the runners, so we'll never know what you'd have done differently. Maybe in 2016 you can show us how to do it and win gold for the USA! I'm sure someone would still find a way to bash you even if you were super successful. But hopefully they'd find a way to tactfully discuss it and not take anything away from your hard work and performance.
MORON.
Read posts before you post. I made no excuses. I was slamming both Kara and Shalane for making excuses. Maybe they didn't teach you how to read across the pond or maybe your IQ of 48 is hampering you.
Furthermore, I forgot to mention that Kara and Shalane screwed up when they didn't relax in the back of the bus (back of the lead pack) for the first half.
Karen wrote:
Didn't appreciate the Galen bashing either, but everyone has eaten their words in his case. He proved all the doubters wrong. So I don't feel like I need to say much there.
"Critiquing" or questioning what an athlete does or his/her performance is one thing. But outright bashing and insulting is something else entirely. And to the tone of "it's the internet so I can say whatever I want with no repercussions" is infuriating when it is mean-spirited.
And for the guy who wondered why I hadn't posted anything in a few hours of my original post- I was doing other things in my life outside the INTERNET and didn't spend my whole night reading letsrun.com. Sorry.
More than those of you who think they should have placed higher or didn't spend enough time training because of commitments to sponsors, it angers me because I know the two runners themselves were disappointed at the end of it. It really hurt me to watch. And to have you all saying such crap in light of it was just disrespectful. Too much, too soon.
My point is that at one point, before he was a silver medalist, GR faced much harsher criticism, why wern't you coming to his defense before? Because he's a man and not a woman?
He proved the doubters wrong. Then shouldn't we also give these two ladies a chance to prove the critics wrong?
Shalane: “This course trashes your legs. All those turns, all that kind of stopping and going, it’s harder to find a rhythm. We practiced breaking rhythm, but until you do it over 26 miles you won’t find out how you deal with it.”
"It was like Portland weather."
“I was yo-yoing all over the place.”
“I don’t think Kara and I have dedicated ourselves more to anything in our lives than to this race. It’s a little heartbreaking.”
Kara: “I thought one of us had a shot. We trained so hard. I’ve never trained so hard in my life. I didn’t even know women trained the way I trained with Shalane. I didn’t even know it existed."
_________________________________________
OK genius, what was the Portland (PDX) copycat course? You can't tell me because you're guessing and truly have no idea. And if they did run a similar course in PDX, why did the course trash them?
Poor conditions you say? What poor conditions? It was a very, very typical PDX and London day.
Pace? The pace was great for Kara and Shalane. Easy first half.
Cramping? Why are they cramping IF they practiced on a similar course in PDX?
FWIW, I spoke with Shalane about the race yesterday. She said that the hardest thing to deal with was the lack of rhythm. She never felt like she could zone out and just hammer. There was always something to think about: crowded fuel zones, big turns, seeing the competition on the turnarounds, etc. She could never just relax and run. She was hyperaware of the race for the whole event, as opposed to just mentally clocking out for the 1st 20 miles. Honestly, I can see how that would be extremely exhausting, mentally. I mean, everyone had to do it, I guess, but still.
You're the moron, you big fat moron!
Tiki Gelana of Ethiopia had to deal with all that and even got knocked down to the ground on all fours during the race. Yet she wins in record time.
Explaining why you think you didn't win is not making excuses. I wish people would figure out the difference.
If you want to do better at anything, you have to look at past performances, analyze them, figure out what went wrong, and try to avoid those mistakes in the future. Good runners analyze their losses and have an opinion about why they didn't win.
The press, Flotrack, etc. asks runners why they think they didn't win. Should they refuse to answer? Should they make up reasons they don't believe?
Tiki Gelana of Ethiopia had to deal with all that and even got knocked down to the ground on all fours during the race. Yet she wins in record time.
You nailed it. Gelana trained hard and came to race. She would not let any obstacle keep her from a gold medal. Shalane and Kara planned on showing up, hopefully having a good day and finishing top 10. That is why they performed the way they did.
Steven Edwards, you're a loser.
At what point in my reply did I say YOU were making excuses. You said both runners were making excuses.
Furthermore, it is impossible to have a discussion with someone who can't refrain from tossing out elementary school-style insults. Your point should be strong enough to stand on your own without insulting someone who disagrees with you. How old are you?
markboen wrote:
Shalane: “This course trashes your legs. All those turns, all that kind of stopping and going, it’s harder to find a rhythm. We practiced breaking rhythm, but until you do it over 26 miles you won’t find out how you deal with it.”
"It was like Portland weather."
“I was yo-yoing all over the place.”
“I don’t think Kara and I have dedicated ourselves more to anything in our lives than to this race. It’s a little heartbreaking.”
Kara: “I thought one of us had a shot. We trained so hard. I’ve never trained so hard in my life. I didn’t even know women trained the way I trained with Shalane. I didn’t even know it existed."
_________________________________________
OK genius, what was the Portland (PDX) copycat course? You can't tell me because you're guessing and truly have no idea. And if they did run a similar course in PDX, why did the course trash them?
Poor conditions you say? What poor conditions? It was a very, very typical PDX and London day.
Pace? The pace was great for Kara and Shalane. Easy first half.
Cramping? Why are they cramping IF they practiced on a similar course in PDX?
I never said there was an exact Portland copycat course. But if you follow any of the articles written or interviews the runners have given in the past 3 months, you'd know that they did practice turns similar to what was on the course. But they surely don't run 26 miles at race pace at any point during training, so it's impossible to fully simulate what that will be like.
Rain=poor conditions. You can't honestly say that is ideal over non-wet, especially on surfaces such as cobblestone.
difficult pace doesn't mean it wasn't an ideally slow first half. It means what Shalane mentioned- varying and hard to keep adjusting.
Sometimes cramping just happens when you're exerting yourself fully. They couldn't stop and stretch or massage, or even take in extra salt like they could if they were in practice. If you are lucky enough to have never encountered debilitating cramping that happens unexpectedly, clearly your body is better suited to hard, long distance running than many of the elites out there. You can't attribute all the cramping to not being prepared for the course.
get read dude wrote:
What assertions? That I am not coming to the defense of privileged males (e.g., G. Rupp) and somehow that makes my effort to defend the dignity of women less valid? Like I said, society is made by men for men. I'm not overly concerned about defending G. Rupp given the vast number of underprivileged women in this world. Mia culpa.
Get over your man hating! This is not the 60's any more. Where I live (California) the table has been completely overturned. You seem to have a lot of personal issues based on all of the man vitriol you spew, and you paint all men with the same ugly brush which is flat out wrong.
sub3over40 wrote:
Both of them should get Salazar back as a coach immediately. Look at what Rupp and Farah did in the 10K. Their little girl power club is not competitive on the world stage. The Africans outworked them and out raced them on the marathon day that counts the most....the Olympic marathon.
Some did, some didn't...
1 ETH GELANA Tiki 2:23:07
2 KEN JEPTOO Priscah 2:23:12
4 KEN KEITANY Mary Jepkosgei 2:23:56
10 USA Shalane Flanagan 2:25:51
11 USA Kara Goucher 2:26:07
20 KEN KIPLAGAT Edna Ngeringwony 2:27:52
23 ETH DIBABA Mare 2:28:48
42 ETH MERGIA Aselefech 2:32:03
I\'m curious about the excuses about the rain, turns, and difficulty finding a rhythm.
Did the medal winners run a different course, under better conditions?