Don't where you get your Halberg Stats from but SIR MURRAY HALBERG finished 5th in Oly 10k in 1960 in 28:48.8 .. His best time was 28:33 behind Ron Clarke in late 1964.
Yes! he is a Knight of the Realm so I guess you could say his book is "Religious".
Today the great man raises Millions of Dollars for Disabled Children and the NZ Sports Awards are called the Halberg Awards.
Currently his book sells on Auction sites in New Zealand at around $25-30 NZ ..
Geez, Round the World, Did not know that JR feels the book is "Religious" .. He must have run a few Waiatarua's .. bloody religious experinces that last few hundred metres to the top of the Hill .. How many times JR ??
J.R. wrote:
Actually his full name was Johan Pietari Kolehmainen.
Hans is a variant of Johan.
Hannes is a variant of Johannes.
Huckleberry Finn wrote:
Congratulations J.R., you can use google!
Let me point out more mistakes you make, since you persist with the same false reasoning used as a Lydiard clone.
First of all you exclaimed I use google. How do you know I use google? Maybe you would be surprised to know that I didn't use google at all, and never use google. It is like someone runs a 2:05 marathon, and you exclaim, that runner used Lydiard training! But that runner never heard of Lydiard, and the fastest guy Lydiard coached ran only 2 hours 18 minutes, a very slow time now for a marathon.
the name Hannes Kolehmainen was his name in the race results
Well Lydiard clones say he trained people who never heard of him, and they put this in print. Probably Johan "Hans" Kolehmainen never heard of you either.
But some news to you, he was known as "Johannes Petteri Kolehmainen" also, so what to choose?
That´s why I chose Hannes Kolehmainen.
No you chose Hannes to try and point out some mistake, but it turns it you're the one making the mistake. I don't care what you choose, but you tried to say it was a spelling mistake, but it isn't a spelling mistake, though you cling to this false idea.
A spelling mistake, for example, would be if you signed in with Hcukleberry Fnin. Then I would think you forgot how to spell your own name. But of course you want to try and create some diversion from your training hypocrisy.
Round the World wrote:
Halberg finished 5th in Oly 10k in 1960 in 28:48.8 .. His best time was 28:33 behind Ron Clarke in late 1964
Oh I must have forgotten that he got 5th. However, in his own book he lists his best time at 28:48. Where was the faster time?
Olympic 10,000 meters 1960
1 Pyotr Bolotnikov 30 Soviet Union URS Gold 28:32.2 28:32.18 OR
2 Hans Grodotzki 24 Germany GER Silver 28:37.0 28:37.22
3 Dave Power 32 Australia AUS Bronze 28:38.2 28:37.65
4 Aleksey Desyatchikov 27 Soviet Union URS 28:39.6 28:39.72
5 Murray Halberg 27 New Zealand NZL 28:48.5 28:49.11
Olympic 10,000 meters 1964
1 Billy Mills 26 United States USA Gold 28:24.4 OR
2 Mohamad Gammoudi 26 Tunisia TUN Silver 28:24.8
3 Ron Clarke 27 Australia AUS Bronze 28:25.8
4 Mamo Wolde 32 Ethiopia ETH 28:31.8
5 Leonid Ivanov 27 Soviet Union URS 28:53.2
6 Kokichi Tsuburaya 24 Japan JPN 28:59.4
7 Murray Halberg 31 New Zealand NZL 29:10.8
Currently his book sells on Auction sites in New Zealand at around $25-30 NZ ..
Not worth much then. Oh well.
My point stands that Kuts and Bolotikov had the far superior training programs, and accomplished much greater successes as result.
Kuts and Bolotnikov had the benefit of being in a state sponsored system in which they could train and more importantly rest and not having to worry about making a living.
The one thing communism was superior at was supporting a vast number of athletes as there was propaganda value in producing athletes that could beat athletes from "Western" governments.
I understood this was a "Canova" thread.
HRE wrote:
I know Barry very well but I really do not want to get involved in yet another of these "Lydiard" threads. Drop me an e-mail and I'll tell you what I know.
I don't recall seeing a numbers all that often, and I'm not sure why you cling to 3 years.As I posted here:http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4290090&page=19I found a 2004 reference where Canova says:Every man needs from 10 to 12 years for building his "aerobic house".I never saw anything that said Kenyans only required 3 years, unless it was related to their personal life situation. In any case, unless your are training Kenyans, then you should keep 10-12 years in mind.Don't be confused with specific things related to VO2max changes (e.g. mitochondria and capillary density), where these single effects max out quite quickly. (Maybe 1-2 years, more or less).
gypsy wrote:
Hi again rekrunner,
I only have one question at the moment.
How many years does Canova say is required to reach this 'aerobic maturity'? I realise it will vary but for these Kenyan's i think i heard him refer to 3 years.
Renato Canova wrote:
What I want to do now, is to ask Gypsy to give a list of ALL THE ATHLETES I DESTROYED IN THE FIRST 3 YEARS, because something not true is not an opinion, is a false information, that can disqualify who gives it to other people. Everybody can accept or not my system, everybody can discuss about technical reasons, BUT NOBODY CAN CHEAT PEOPLE NOT KNOWING THE HISTORY OF ATHLETICS GIVING WRONG INFORMATIONS IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THEIR OPINION.
Should i shout at you as well?
Fact is Renato none of your athletes have ever improved beyond the first three years. This is a statistical fact and shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that your system is a failure.
One athlete - show us the stats.
J.R. -- you have some extreme opinions, but never give any supporting facts.
J.R. wrote:
...Also thank you to WC, gypsy (who can't even spell own name), rekr, nobb and others ...
"Lydiard" is in the title and the question was about Barry Magee. Close enough for me.
Paul Ballinger was being coached by Arthur Lydiard when he won Fukuoka in 1982. 2.10 from memory.
J.R. wrote:
J.R. wrote:Actually his full name was Johan Pietari Kolehmainen.
Hans is a variant of Johan.
Hannes is a variant of Johannes.
Huckleberry Finn wrote:
Congratulations J.R., you can use google!
Let me point out more mistakes you make, since you persist with the same false reasoning used as a Lydiard clone.
First of all you exclaimed I use google. How do you know I use google? Maybe you would be surprised to know that I didn't use google at all, and never use google. It is like someone runs a 2:05 marathon, and you exclaim, that runner used Lydiard training! But that runner never heard of Lydiard, and the fastest guy Lydiard coached ran only 2 hours 18 minutes, a very slow time now for a marathon.
the name Hannes Kolehmainen was his name in the race results
Well Lydiard clones say he trained people who never heard of him, and they put this in print. Probably Johan "Hans" Kolehmainen never heard of you either.
But some news to you, he was known as "Johannes Petteri Kolehmainen" also, so what to choose?
That´s why I chose Hannes Kolehmainen.
No you chose Hannes to try and point out some mistake, but it turns it you're the one making the mistake. I don't care what you choose, but you tried to say it was a spelling mistake, but it isn't a spelling mistake, though you cling to this false idea.
A spelling mistake, for example, would be if you signed in with Hcukleberry Fnin. Then I would think you forgot how to spell your own name. But of course you want to try and create some diversion from your training hypocrisy.
gypsy wrote:
Fact is Renato none of your athletes have ever improved beyond the first three years.
Even if you would be right on this, you don´t realise that the improvement cannot be continued forever, or not necessarily over 3 years when you have trained very hard. With kenyan runners you can do this process faster, because in most casess they probably already have a great "aerobic house" before the training with Canova.
Huckleberry Finn wrote:Even if you would be right on this, you don´t realise that the improvement cannot be continued forever, or not necessarily over 3 years when you have trained very hard. With kenyan runners you can do this process faster, because in most casess they probably already have a great "aerobic house" before the training with Canova.
The thing is i'm not wrong and the best bit is that you can check yourself.
The other thing is Canova is not alone, he is part of the majority in fact.
If three years of improvement is not enough then what would constitute 'enough'? I've thought about it and the only reasonable explanation i can come up with is 5 seasons, Simply because this is the minimum required to span two Olympiads. Of course to compete internationally over 5 seasons probably means a few years of training at this international level has probably already been undertaken. Since we are on the topic of Lydiard, the example of Snell comes to mind, consecutive Olympiads. If we want to go outside of Lydiard and even distance running the numbers of athletes who had careers longer than 3 years is legion. Since the numbers are so large as to prohibit easy analysis, we could just look at the Soviet athletes in the last 40 years or so who have had long careers. Bubka's 6 consecutive world championships stands out as does Saneyev's 4 consecutive Olympiads. Sedykh's career was over a decade. the Soviet comparison is apt considering the similarity in periodisation.
You gave the guy crap for not giving specific examples - OK, where are your specific examples? Since there's so many you should be able to give some good examples to make your argument. Otherwise you're just another guy yelling out his opinion.
Cherono/Shaheen ran 12:48 in 2003 and 13:00 in 2010, that spans eight seasons - the first four were remarkable, the latter four mostly marred by injuries.
I suppose 'gypsy' will blame the injury problems on Canova but I think it's impressive longevity, even if it's not Geb or Kipchoge level consistency.
Moses Mosop ran 27:13 and placed top 10 (for the second year running) at World XC in 2003, that's almost a decade ago now. He also battled injuries at times but he's clearly still a world-class athlete in 2012.
Sir Murray Halberg ran 28:33 behind Ron Clarke's 28:29.6 at Western Springs, Auckland, 18th November 1964.
His book was written in 1963.
What is he, an uppity snob.
Nah Mate. He was knighted for his services to Disabled Children. See my Post above.
gypsy wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:What I want to do now, is to ask Gypsy to give a list of ALL THE ATHLETES I DESTROYED IN THE FIRST 3 YEARS, because something not true is not an opinion, is a false information, that can disqualify who gives it to other people. Everybody can accept or not my system, everybody can discuss about technical reasons, BUT NOBODY CAN CHEAT PEOPLE NOT KNOWING THE HISTORY OF ATHLETICS GIVING WRONG INFORMATIONS IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THEIR OPINION.
Should i shout at you as well?
Fact is Renato none of your athletes have ever improved beyond the first three years. This is a statistical fact and shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that your system is a failure.
One athlete - show us the stats.
As you ask for only one example I will give only one example - a very recent improvement.
FLORENCE KIPLAGAT - Sunday in Rome 66minutes in HM an improvement of over 1 minute from previous PB. Training with Canova for many years.