David Rudisha is given 4 years to get the US Olympic Trials 'A' Standard for every running event. Could he do it?

You think david rudisha would run 12.0 from blocks, you can't be reasoned with. Some guy already posted a 1:45 guys FAT 100m time which was 0.64 faster than 12.0 and was from a guy who ran up above 800 as well. You can't be reasoned with. Have fun in la la land.

Also I love that you think a 1:50 is not as good as 10.96.

I don't know, Russel Brown is a pretty good runner and I think that not making it out of the first round was just unfortunate for him. He deserved to make the team IMO so your point saying that Brown was a sub-11 runner really doesn't apply here as he is kind of a World Class athlete.

This is your reasoning, condensed:

Some guy ran 10.96 FAT for 100m a while ago, and is now an 800m runner.

David Rudisha is an 800m runner who is much quicker over 800m than this other 800m runner, therefore Rudisha is much quicker over a block-start 100m than this other 800m runner.

Would you accept that kind of reasoning? Especially since, as pointed out by other posters, the requirements for elite status in the 100m are arguably diametrically opposed to those for elite status in the 800m?

geezer - you realize how easy you are to troll?

I have to say thanks to Sprint Geezer - these are some of the more interesting posts that I have read on this message board in a while.

I have no first-hand expertise in either elite sprinting or elite distance running, but based on what I've seen in high school (where lots of people are running lots of distances), I basically concur with Sprint Geezer. I personally think Rudisha could run faster than 12.0 right now (maybe more like 11.5 to 11.8), and could probably get down to 10.6 to 10.8. But of course he would never get anywhere near 10.07.

And of course a 10.07 is nowhere near comparable to a 4:30 mile, and a 10.7 isn't as good as 4:30 either . In high school, the comparable time to a 4:30 mile is probably about 11.1. But most high school runners are undertrained in distance, so for an optimally trained runner, 4:30 talent is probably equivalent to something like 11.4 talent.

There's absolutely ZERO chance David Rudisha could touch 10.07.

The 100m is about Power(exploding out of the blocks like a mad man and maintaining your sprint form throughout the entire race, keeping relaxed and smooth but still pumping all the way through the line) having good form and technique, fast reflexes(for things such as Reaction time, trying to get of the blocks as quickly as possible after that gun goes off), amount of muscle you have so you can generate the huge amount of sheer power needed for the 100(must find a good power-to-weight ratio that includes not too much muscle or fat so as to slow you down but enough to just generate that power you need).

The biggest thing that would block Rudisha in my opinion though is the turnover. Rudisha does not have the turnover to get through the first 50-60m of the race. Once he gets those long legs going, maybe just maybe he could make up some ground on the 10.2 "B" standard in the 100m(of course doing specific sprint training) but I doubt he could ever ever get the first 50m down enough to where he would be anywhere near 10.2 even if he trained(I suspect he maxes out at 10.4 high at the very best). Of course, sprinting is just about the most purely genetic based sport you could choice. Genetics are everything, and Rudisha might not have the genetics to go faster than 10.8. But, seeing his 400 speed, I'm inclined to think that he might have the genetics with only sprint training to run 10.5 at best, but I could easily be wrong too. If I believe correctly, he ran 22 mid even splits in his lowish 45 second run, so that might mean his 100 speed is not so good either(as the 400 and 800 are in a way similar races while the 100m and 400m-800m are not in the same ball league really) . For all we know, he could max out at 11 seconds for 100m.

The 800m and 100m are about as different as the 800 and marathon, probably more. You guys just don't understand the huge difference between running 12.5-12.7 100m pace throughout the entire race with a running start most of the way versus running 10.0 pace with starting blocks and all. It's an absolutely GIGANTIC difference in pace and makes the races completely different. The 100m is a beast of its own, it really is a special breed of race unlike any other.

Rudisha might in a million years get the 200 and(especially) 400 standard(less need of power in these races and he would be able to get to acceleration in these races by about 50-60m, so could catch up to the field if he trained exclusively for sprints the last 60-80m in the 200m or last 200m in a 400m since he's an endurance guy). I say he could run near 11-flat with a little block work right now considering he's run low 12s at the beginning of his 800 races before, but I doubt much faster. Short Sprinting(mostly the 60 and 100m races) is just a sport people on this board don't understand. They don't know how hard it is to sprint.

You don't sprint during a distance race. Not once. You accelerate and "kick" but your never really sprinting. If you run under 10.8 than you probably know what it's like to sprint and how amazing of times 10.07 and 10.20 really are. If not, than you probably just don't understand the sport of sprinting unless maybe you've coached sprinters before or seen the training sprinters do and understand just how many guys sprint and how many actually run 10.07 or even 10.20 out of all of the talented bunch of sprinters Rudisha will never ever get the A or B standard in the 100m. It just won't happen.

TL;DR- Rudisha will never get the A or B standard in the 100m because he doesn't have the power or leg turnover to do so. People on this message board don't understand sprinting and just how incredible 10.07 or 10.20 really is. It's a remarkable time and Rudisha can't achieve it. He could maybe run high 10.4 at best with sprint and of course block training.

Sprint Geezer I love you. I just read through all 7 pages of this thread and it kept me busy for quite a while. I agree that Rudisha could never come close to the standards. I think most of your points are valid but come on. 12 flat for him right now? Just admit it was a bit foolish of you to say. My mom could run a 12 flat on one foot.

Well, finally some voices of reason.

OK all, how about this: everything I said, except that right now, today, at this very moment, Rudisha could run an 11.6 out of the blocks--assuming he didn't stumble or trip, or actually get slowed down by using the blocks vs not using the blocks (one of which would, IMHO, happen)--as opposed to a 12.0 if something went wrong on the start.

Better?

I feel like I'm negotiating a budget or something!

"Hard-nosed son-of-a-bitch ex-sprinter willing to meet upstart young turk distance runners half-way in a compromise measure aimed at ending ongoing hostilities".

I'm telling you guys, we should form a letsrun.com Congress and supplant the judgments of USATF, WADA, IAAF, IOC, etc. with our own.

And "awesome thread", I would like to meet your mom.

11.6 from the blocks....Do you know any other 45.50 guys who can only run 11.6? JESUS you are dumb.

My mom can't run 12.0, but I've seen plenty of middle school girls do it. Maybe they could give poor Rudisha, who can only muster a 45.50 during base period, some power advice?

Yeah and I don't think any sentient person on this board thinks Rudisha could run 10.07. I love how everyone is like "YOU DONT UNDERSTAND...HE CANT RUN 10.07!!!" when nobody seems to say that.

Sprint Geezer wrote:

deanouk, with respect, I can't see how you think it "very clear" when he crosses the start line, or when he crosses the 100m mark. So-called "official splits" in the 1600 relays have never been regarded as very accurate. The largest sources of error for you will be when you start, and when you stop, the timer. The error on the start will be the same for 100 as for 400 (the start is the same for both), and the error from the finish of the 100 will be even greater than that for the 400 because it is not as clear.

Marita Koch--did she really? BTW that is a HAND time, and therefore inaccurate. Plus, even if she did (disputed), she's probably faster over 100m from the blocks than Coe.

Yes she did run the first 100m in 11.60. According to the discussion on the link below, the fastest first 100m for a guy was 10.6 (Fred Newhouse, a 44 low athlete) from the blocks.

The above link has a very good discussion on 100m splits in 400m running, and would be an interesting read for those following this thread. It would also imply that close video analysis is used quite often by statisticians and are not "inaccurate hand times".

So we have Koch, a 10.8 100m runner at best, running 0.8 secs slower in the first 100m of a 400m race. She was a 47.6 400m runner, about 2 secs slower than Coe's best. Then we have a 44 low guy running a first 100m in 10.6. He must have been capable of about 10.2 for 100m from the blocks. Yet you have difficulty believing a 45.6 400m performance doesn't start with an 11.0 first 100m!

I would suggest 45/1:41 runner s like Coe and Rudisha, would have little problem breaking 11.0 from the blocks without specific training. I would also think both would have at least matched Koch over 100m, and more likely beaten her with a little training to get used to the blocks.

Rudisha's father was an Olympic 400m runner and Coe regularly trained with sprinters doing repeat drills over 200m in under 22 secs. Ovett ran a 100m in 11.8 at 14, when his 400pb was 51.6 and he had yet to break 2:00 for 800m! I'm sure he'd have been substantially faster when he was running 1:44s

Of course you are 100% right about an 800 guy running 10.07 or even 10.2. They couldn't. And a world class "distance" runner who runs 13 for 5k would have difficulty running below 12.0 from the blocks. But, I think some of the 400 guys who move up to 800 could get down to 10.4/10.5, and Coe as the world mile record holder in 81, would have run 10.8 no doubt.

I'd say Rudisha last year could probably run 10.6 FAT.

all the above is correct. well said deano.

i can only offer some estimates for his current potential for 1500 - 10k

now, his manager said he is currently capable of high-44, which is highly plausible as he ran a 45.5 early season off no speed work

as for 800, his berlin run was worth at least high-1'40 if he had followed the wabbit & got drafting advantage worth ~ 0.5s/200m - call it a conservative 1'40.75

44.75 / 1'40.75 -> 2'10.5 , 3'28.1 , 7'38.3 , 13'35.6 , 29'31.8

only 1500m is a reasonable chase for A atandard

deanouk--

Your third and sixth paragraphs continue to rely on the faulty reasoning that if someone is faster than someone else in an 800, (now the 400), they are therefore also faster in the 100 from blocks.

Your suggestion in your fifth paragraph is made without supporting evidence.

You are still talking about hand-timed 100m splits in the 400m. All of the deficiencies I pointed out in my earlier post still apply with equal validity.

Newhouse's 10.6 is a crappy hand time from 1972, and shouldn't be seriously considered. Also, the 400 start is "from the blocks", and your extrapolation to a 10.2 hand time is respectfully absurd.

It is so absurd that if he could have run 10.2 from the blocks, he would have taken silver in Munich behind Borzov, or possibly gold, since Borzov ran only a 10.14

I don't know how accurate Chris Brown's 10.73 split is, but let's take that one as good. Chris Brown is a 400m guy, is he not? That means that he is relatively better than 800m guys at 100m, and relatively worse at 800m, even if they run similar 400m times.

Again, using 400m runners as comparisons is inapplicable. Since Gay can run a 44.86, should he therefore be able to run an 800 faster than Rudisha?

Come on, man. The 800m is about speed endurance--in particular, maintaining a speed slower than what is maintained in the 400 or the 200. It is about maintaining 8 m/s for Rudisha, vs hitting 12 m/s for top sprinters. The acceleration phase of the first 100m of an 800m makes little effective contribution to the overall 800m time, and a scorching 100m ability is not required, or even desirable. The energy systems involved are different, and need to be differently trained.

There is absolutely no way Rudisha could run 10.6x from the blocks right now. If he trained for it, I think he might just be able to get it after a while.

And no, just because Newhouse was hand-timed in 10.6 in the first 100m of a 400m race in 1972 does not suggest that Rudisha can run a 10.6x 100m from the blocks. See above.

I stand by all that I put. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I almost spit coffee all over myself just picturing Rudisha, a 6-3 muscular guy who has split in the 44s several times...struggling to break 12.0 in the 100m.

If he works on his starts maybe he could win a city junior high school girl's title...at least in a small city!

Of course it would take work, because he doesn't have the natural explosiveness of those jr high kids. I mean the guy does look like he is straining a bit when he runs 48s first laps.

Saying you need explosiveness to run 12.0 is like saying you need explosiveness to dunk a basketball. Yeah you might need a LITTLE...but not a helluva a lot. Hell I bet the guy could break 12.0 from the 110 start.

David Rudisha ran in max. speed sprints 8x100m averaging 10.8 hand timed with the fastest repeat at 10.6 secs at 2000m altitud.

Manny G you need to stay the f*** off these boards, you know NOTHING about running

Hi deanouk!

I can live with that.

In the end, both of us are talking out our asses...it has been kind of fun, though.

Oh, and threadfinisher's characterization of Rudisha as a "muscular" 6'3" guy...6'3", 157 lbs, that is...well, I'll let that one stand on its own.

Out.

David Rudisha would have to work hard to break 12.0 in the 100!