Big Ups: Hall, 2:04.57 AR

I forgot to include the females who ran under 2:30 for 2011. There are 16 Females who ran under 2:30.

So 96 Runners in 2011 broke 2:30. 75 runners in 2010 broke 2:30.

Ok so we have the tail wind +3min, cool temperatures +2min, Ryan stopping to tie his shoe -15sec, that extra bagel with peanut butter -45sec, Ryans stop for some coffee -4min....come on people we get the whole thing about conversions stop being so picky about it and just accept and enjoy watching a human run a marathon faster then we have ever seen before and Ryan ran a sub 2:05. Boston although net downhill has never been considered a fast course and if you think it is try running up all those hills and downhills and tell me how your legs feel...I would take a flatter course like Chicago, London, Berlin, Rotterdam any day for going after a fast time. Yes it is very obvious the wind made a big difference but I think the tough ups and downs have to be factored in too. Eitherway we all just witnessed some amazing running.

I would also take Berlin or London "any day" because 9 out of 10 times you'd run faster on those courses. But when things work out at Boston (your race strategy, not necessarily the conditions) it's a super fast course.

I know whereof I speak. My PR was set in Boston on a warm day with a headwind. I've run Berlin and Chicago as well in equally good shape and run good races but it was at Boston it all clicked for me.

Records cannot be set on Boston's course, got it. Huge tailwind, got it. But...

1. Geoffrey Mutai-2:04:55 marathon Rotterdam for 2nd, 5th at world cross, 59:30 1st at Valencia 1/2

2. Moses Mosop- 12:54, 26:49, 59:20 Milano 1/2, 3rd in world 10k final Helsinki,2nd in world cross Mombasa

3. Gebre Gebremariam- 12:52, 26:52, 2:08 in NY win, 2009 world cross champ 2004 long and short race world cross runner up. 4th in 2004 olympic 5k final

4. RYAN HALL

5. Abreham Cherkos- 7:32, 12:54, 2:07:30 for 4th in Amsterdam, 5th in Beijing 5k final

6. Robert Kiprono Cheruiyot- 2:05:52 Boston champ, Frankfurt champ and runner up

7. Philip Kimutai Sanga- 2:08.17 for 2nd in Eindhoven

8. Derissa Chimsa- 2:07:54 pr

9. Bekana Daba- Houston champ 2:07:04

The one standard that is always in place is the credentials of the men in the race. This was a studly field, and Ryan ran like he belonged. Kudos to the man of the hour, I met him once and he showed interest in my running like I was one of his peers (and I'm obviously lights years away). Class act, great guy to be around. i wish him well.

For all the people dismissing the time Mutai and Hall ran do to the wind: Consider this, didn't the women run in the same wind? Yet not even a course record was set and not even close to the world record.

If he would have done what most Lets runners were telling him to do and hit the track like Ritz he probably would have run 1:58.

Bobby1 wrote:

For all the people dismissing the time Mutai and Hall ran do to the wind: Consider this, didn't the women run in the same wind? Yet not even a course record was set and not even close to the world record.

Why don't you consider this. The average PR of the top 15 women was 2:25:54, 10 and a half minutes slower that Paula Radcliffe. Why would you even make the ridiculous statement that a CR or WR would be possible from such a weak field?

/snark So am I to understand then that Bill Rodgers never held the American record in the marathon? /snark..

Personally, I've always found any talk of records in road racing to be ridiculous. It's like HS runners obsessing over their XC PRs. Part of the magic of the road racing scene from the seventies was lost when the focus changed from races of 'about seven miles' to TAC certified 10ks. The attractiveness of a race was primarily a function of its likelihood to get you a 'PR'. People who think of the sport in this way miss out on a lot of its charms, I think. We would do well - ourselves, those who love this sport most - to stop obsessing so much over times, at least on the roads. Yes, the ability to objectively measure performance in our sport is one of its advantages, but so is its moments of dramatic competition. The best most entertaining races are only rarely ones in which records are set. This goes for track as well as the roads.

to go in a different direction with convo, i watched the race highlights and looked through photos and there are spots [i forget where, maybe at about the half or more] where ryan is leading and he is cupping his hands around his ear and raising his hands to pump up the crowd. i think it is cool to see someone trying to play to the crowd, pump them up, and bring a little excitement to the race. this is something i expect from football or basketball players so its just kind of cool to see it from ryan hall. he is fun to watch and i hope his self coached success continues. we need ryan hall whether we like him or not or agree with his coaching choices, and he is probably our best chance at the marathon. fun guy to watch and its hard to not be a fan. he is very charismatic and wind or not, he covered the marathon distance on boston's course in sub 205. most people couldnt do that if you dragged them behind a car or bike

Hell Yeah!! Great race!!!

Dropping his coach was the way to go.

Best American distance runner right now for sure.

..."Comparison/Counselor", if you say, then it must be true, lol!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2YbY9eYmdM

"If it doesn't fit,then you must acquit!"

-Johnny Cochran, R.I.P.

I think a lot of obsession over PRs happens on the message boards. That didn't happen back in the 70s and 80s. Obviously, a lot of people still care about the spirit of the race, or they wouldn't run races like Boston or other slow courses just for the sake of winning (and possibly a good pay day for the elites). They do it because they love racing. I think the internet is much to blame for the obsession. I wouldn't worry about it, though.

unfortunately, the time is nothing to be amazed by. it's well within what we already knew hall to be capable of, even without the tailwind. in reality, we should find this yet another disappointing race. hall isn't disappointed, but that's just it. the kid talks about winning marathon majors, but time and again, when the break is made, he's content to let them go. 2 minutes back, off-podium finish. fail.

So some people here have said that, when taking wind into account, Hall's converted performance would be worth somewhere in the ballpark of 2:06:50-2:08 (yes, broad range). But, Boston is known (until this past year), to be a course in which people TEND to run 1:30-2:00 SLOWER than other courses (compare winning times @ Boston vs London over the past 10 years).

When you consider that, one could say his performance was worth anything from a low 2:05 to a high 2:06. Pretty sure you could say Hall is back, or at least pretty damn close to figuring things out.

With that being say, i really don't think he's ever been "off", his 2:08 and 2:09 in Boston are still quite impressive.

I don't find it is too radical to say that this performance was approximately the equivalent of Hall's previous PR. I think the argument at hand is Ryan Hall was doing worse over the last 2-3 years since his London marathon performance in 2008. He has now returned to peak form.Perhaps this was a freak performance. Perhaps his recent training changes have brought his career back to life. Perhaps he will improve until 2012?These are the interesting questions. Everyone cross your fingers that Ritz finds the same tailwind by 2012.

Lost Soul wrote:

So some people here have said that, when taking wind into account, Hall's converted performance would be worth somewhere in the ballpark of 2:06:50-2:08 (yes, broad range). But, Boston is known (until this past year), to be a course in which people TEND to run 1:30-2:00 SLOWER than other courses (compare winning times @ Boston vs London over the past 10 years).

When you consider that, one could say his performance was worth anything from a low 2:05 to a high 2:06. Pretty sure you could say Hall is back, or at least pretty damn close to figuring things out.

If you think Hall wasn't trying and content letting the leaders go you are the most ignorant person on this message board. Mutai and Mosop were throwing down 430s and 425s to separate themselves from the rest of the field....so what Hall sucks now because he was only able to run 440-445s? I think 2:04:58 is not a disappointment...you say his effort was a failure because he didn't win? Come on, of course any runner would love to win but more then anything it is a race against yourself to see how far or how fast you could take it yourself. Halls performance easily could have been a victory in other major marathons but there is no telling what the other competition is going to do that day...it just so happened that two guys ran low 2:03s.

So Hall finished 4th last year at Boston and now finished 4th this year at Boston.

Different conditions producing different times and very different reactions from the crowd.

Sounds like he is a pretty good and consistent marathoner but I recall quite a few negative posts about him in the year between these two races.

Exactly, jimjames. There's no good way to judge the time; the conditions were vastly different than they had been other years. But the important thing is that Hall went out there and hammered; he was leading the race early on instead of just sitting back like he did in Beijing, and he ran an incredibly tough race against a great field. I admit to doubting him, with his crazy religious talk and his seemingly crazy decision to dump his coach. But in Boston, he showed that he's still a fantastic runner, and is truly a world class marathoner right now. A very exciting race for sure, and it's great to see an American really compete with some of the marathon greats of the world, even if he wasn't that close to the top two.